Diablo® III

Armor vs All Resist

So I see a lot of Demon Hunters who slot the Diamonds for All Resist into sockets to help toughness...

78 (Best diamond) x 1.1 ( Perfectionist) x 1.2 (Boar companion via Marauders) = 102.96 all resist.

How does this compare to:

280 Armor from Strength (via Flawless Royal Ruby).. would this be multiplied by perfectionist?

280 Armor (from str gem) x 1.1 (perfectionist if it effects it) = 308 Armor

How does the mitigation on this work, is there breakpoints where one is better than the other for stacking purposes?
Reply Quote
Sorry, I'm at work currently so I can't test this myself...
Reply Quote
AR compared to Armor is almost always more powerful. Here's a quick post about it. And when I say quick, I mean ultra wall of words.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5836324621
Reply Quote
I see a lot of these posts and haven't really seen any definitive answer so I'm going to post what works for me.

You can stack AR but unfortunately at a point the dr becomes substantially high.. You can do the same with armor but again you get the dr (diminishing returns) that make each point less effective.

I find you really need to have a good balance between the two. Yeah resistance helps for champ packs but if you are aiming for t5 or t6 you are going to avoid most elemental damage.

Long story short try get BOTH as his as you can. Try not to sacrifice one for the other.

Just my two cents
Reply Quote
10 armor is equivalent to 1 resist. You want a balance of both but I wouldn't be socketing rubies to accomplish that.
Reply Quote
05/09/2014 02:32 PMPosted by Daniel
10 armor is equivalent to 1 resist. You want a balance of both but I wouldn't be socketing rubies to accomplish that.


please read my link above
Reply Quote
Posts: 9,670
View profile
get 8k armor and 900 all resist w/ 400 ppt (50/50 into armor and all resist)
= 91.48%

or

get 7.5k (6k +25%)
and 755 all resist (250 + 91*4 +141^6 = 755)
= 90.10%

placing down the same amount of life, the difference between that 1.38% is almost 600k ehp, which is about 600 vit points.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 5/9/2014 2:44 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Seems to me striving for the 10:1 ratio isn't very applicable to demon hunters, since we don't really have great options for increasing armor, and point-for-point resists are almost always superior. The way the math works out according to the thread Oscar linked, blowing your resists up completely out of proportion to armor doesn't result in much of an EHP loss in the end.
Reply Quote
yeah for a dh always resists coz of the max per roll disparity, max armour per roll is 590+ and max ar is 100.....

In cases like wiz where we can get very high ar values u can start thinking about balancing coz when the ar is very high armour starts to gain more importance and 500+ armour roll can start being equal or superiro to a 90+ ar roll. (also wiz buffs buff more armour than resists)
Reply Quote
05/09/2014 02:41 PMPosted by KirusAlufras
get 8k armor and 900 all resist w/ 400 ppt (50/50 into armor and all resist)
= 91.48%

or

get 7.5k (6k +25%)
and 755 all resist (250 + 91*4 +141^6 = 755)
= 90.10%

placing down the same amount of life, the difference between that 1.38% is almost 600k ehp, which is about 600 vit points.


Where do you get all those numbers you are multiplying?
Reply Quote
05/10/2014 04:52 AMPosted by ximae
yeah for a dh always resists coz of the max per roll disparity, max armour per roll is 590+ and max ar is 100.....

In cases like wiz where we can get very high ar values u can start thinking about balancing coz when the ar is very high armour starts to gain more importance and 500+ armour roll can start being equal or superiro to a 90+ ar roll. (also wiz buffs buff more armour than resists)


Here again, players are looking at it like 10 armor = 1 resist all, which isn't the case. I remember that old thread Oscar linked. It has been that thread that has informed the way I view defensive stats.

Using the information contained in the linked thread, the DH will realize that there comes a point when 500 armor is > 90 resist all. Let me emphasize this point, it is possible with a player's defensive stats that 8 armor = 1 resist all.
Edited by RedCell#1728 on 5/10/2014 9:35 AM PDT
Reply Quote
The +10 armor = +1 all resist is true when your armor = 10 times your all resist. The relative gains however deviate from the 10:1 rule when you break that balance. That said, it isn't really possible to get the relative difference in numbers to the point where a 280 armor gem will beat a 78 all resist gem for pure toughness; your armor either has to be absurdly low, or your all resist needs to be absurdly high. In the last case where your all resist is really high, a vitality gem will be the ideal gem to use. Also, I think perfectionist and the boar stack additively to a total of 30% (not 32%) bonus all resist.

Consider the case where you have 4000 armor (below average), 1200 all resist (above average), and 4000 vitality (about average). This scenario favors armor more, but the 280 armor is still too low to be a big benefit. Then the relative bonuses for 280 Strength, 280 Vitality, and 78 All Resist are:

Base Toughness ~= (Vit*80)*(1 + AR/350)*(1+ Armor/3500) = 3.037M

Toughness w/ +280 armor = 3.150M
Toughness w/ +280 vitality = 3.249M
Toughness w/ +78 all res = 3.190M

Not even the fact that armor was better than the 10:1 ratio could outperform the all resist. Once you get your armor down to about 3000, and all resist up to about 1300 (without diamonds), then the 280 armor beats the 78 all resist; however, the 280 vitality trumps both options!

TLDR; Don't bother with rubies in armor unless your class name rhymes with librarian or invader. If you want toughness, stick to diamonds and amethysts. See post below for choosing diamonds vs amethysts per socket.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12673198817#8
Reply Quote
05/10/2014 09:34 AMPosted by RedCell
it is possible with a player's defensive stats that 8 armor = 1 resist all.

sure.. there is just one problem

05/10/2014 04:52 AMPosted by ximae
max per roll disparity, max armour per roll is 590+ and max ar is 100.....

that's the issue and gear already comes with armor

if it didn't having +590 armor on a mod might be worth it since you'd reach a 6:1 fast
- obviously a strength/Int gem for 280/28 is certainly not > 7X AR

05/09/2014 11:34 AMPosted by Tallyn

78 (Best diamond) x 1.1 ( Perfectionist) x 1.2 (Boar companion via Marauders) = 102.96 all resist.
like stats are additive: Boar + perfectionist = +30%

typically with the the 250 AR on paragon and life% on gear point for point the best toughness will be reached with amethysts. this alters as you invest - some people will want a blend already

If you use static regen (+regen and +LoH) you may prefer resistance, but things like healing vapor are simply % and so the max toughness is better

05/09/2014 11:56 AMPosted by Drogo
dr becomes substantially high..
there is no DR
when moving towards 0% effects are asymptotic
1/ (damage - attenuation)

this "dr" you are perceiving only straightens what would normally accelerate
the returns are linear. They do not diminish

as you invest in AR the value of +1 armor becomes stronger, but it will seldom cross a proportion where 590 armor > 100Ar
Edited by zoid#1554 on 5/10/2014 11:22 AM PDT
Reply Quote
05/10/2014 09:23 AMPosted by masterpiece1
Where do you get all those numbers you are multiplying?


Google up the damage formula and plug in things vs. a level 70 monster.

Personally, I find it silly to make the assumption everyone's going to have 400 paragon points laying around and would otherwise advise putting the first 50 into AR and possibly Regen after that.

In terms of Armor affixes, they're simply underperforming compared to AR since they seem set up with the inclusion of equipment's base armor value in mind. Since gear doesn't carry base AR, potential diminishing returns don't hit as quickly or as harshly. And while it's all well and good to say to hit 10:1 ratios, 4/2 makes that rough for us alongside Dex's failings. Plugging in my own numbers, I get more reduction from 5500 Armor and 1400 AR (92.22%) than I do 9000 Armor and 900 AR (92.16%). The former is possible with the right set combos, some diamonds, and Perf without giving up too much offense, but for some, that's giving up too much. Hence some drama from time to time.

Simply getting 1/20 our Dex in AR would free up 4-5 slot for Armor affixes, which would probably be in the neighborhood of a 1400-2000 bump for folks so inclined with RNG on top. And a 7500/1400 spread becomes 93.64% mitigation before other factors. If you could dump even more via paragon, great, but Armor's a pretty tough sell on priority right now and I feel like the Armor affixes themselves need to be doubled or close to it.
Reply Quote
05/09/2014 11:56 AMPosted by Drogo
Yeah resistance helps for champ packs but if you are aiming for t5 or t6 you are going to avoid most elemental damage.


i may be wrong but i do believe all resistance reduce physical damage as well which would be a mobs attacks

thing that i notice is they don't put enough armor on pieces, the max armor roll is 400 where the max ar is 100, and i have never seen it where 400 armor ever made as much reduction as 100 resistance
Reply Quote
05/10/2014 09:34 AMPosted by RedCell
05/10/2014 04:52 AMPosted by ximae
yeah for a dh always resists coz of the max per roll disparity, max armour per roll is 590+ and max ar is 100.....

In cases like wiz where we can get very high ar values u can start thinking about balancing coz when the ar is very high armour starts to gain more importance and 500+ armour roll can start being equal or superiro to a 90+ ar roll. (also wiz buffs buff more armour than resists)


Here again, players are looking at it like 10 armor = 1 resist all, which isn't the case. I remember that old thread Oscar linked. It has been that thread that has informed the way I view defensive stats.

Using the information contained in the linked thread, the DH will realize that there comes a point when 500 armor is > 90 resist all. Let me emphasize this point, it is possible with a player's defensive stats that 8 armor = 1 resist all.


This is correct -- the cookie cutter 10:1 ratio just doesn't quite work.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]