Diablo® III

DiEoxidE's Ninchakru Spec w/T6 vids!

First of all Thank You.

second: 438 lvl in paragon. of course your build is time efficient.
But at 438 every build is efficient
100 paragon lvl gives u a boost that no other things do

so when people compare this to other build should make a comparison at the same lvl.

CA build is by far more dmg output at 438
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Given how glassy you were when fighting act 1 elite packs, have you tried fighting corrupted angels and reapers using this build yet? How well does it work?

And also for the hexing pants while stutter stepping, the moment when you stop to shoot, wouldn't you lose the buff and instead gain a debuff given by the hexing pants?
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05/03/2014 03:29 AMPosted by Pyral
Huh, I may be overstacking toughness. Im trying to make a poison % dmg based impale build. i need to get me one of these garwulf cloaks. Thanks!


You can't really look at it the same way. The skills you choose for your build, you'll want to experiment around with it for awhile, understand the strengths and weaknesses for the attacks you're using and their sweet spots and make the playing style adjustment accordingly over time.

For DiEoxidE's build, the usage of Bounty Hunter and Wolves being a heavy means of slow, damage, and distraction allow him to pressure with less toughness, as he's at risk of taking damage less frequently. This is why he mentions Eye of Etlitch, because his build is vulnerable to range attacks much more than melee attacks. When playing the build correctly, the Wolves are the ones taking the melee damage.

Also Toughness is a guideline, and it only takes the average of all the values you have. In an overall sense, your Toughness is only as good as your lowest value(but the Toughness rating doesn't display it that way), but when you understand more where your chosen attacks are the most effective, you can plan your toughness based on the types of damage you'd be most vulnerable to.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 5/3/2014 3:52 AM PDT
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05/03/2014 03:49 AMPosted by Rambo
Given how glassy you were when fighting act 1 elite packs, have you tried fighting corrupted angels and reapers using this build yet? How well does it work?


The charges are hella annoying. It usually comes down to two things, either anticipating the charge if I see them at the edge of my screen, or hope that my bounty hunter/sentry hit them (numbing traps) in time to take the charged hits if I'm not able to move. Sometimes they go for the wolves, which usually have them charge at an angle that's a little off from where I am, but I generally don't like to rely on those odds :P

In most cases, they are dead before they get a second chance, but if not, the surprise element is no longer an issue and is dealt with by keeping them as far off screen as possible so I have time to react. Definitely easier said than done. It's not really a build thing imo, but more of a general DH thing.

05/03/2014 03:49 AMPosted by Rambo
And also for the hexing pants while stutter stepping, the moment when you stop to shoot, wouldn't you lose the buff and instead gain a debuff given by the hexing pants?


The buff doesn't drop immediately the moment you stop to shoot. I don't have the exact mathzors, but it's roughly around .4 to .5 seconds before it falls off, so as long as you're stutter stepping, you're not dropping the buff as your character isn't standing still long enough between attacks to drop the buff.
Edited by DiEoxidE#1987 on 5/3/2014 4:08 AM PDT
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05/03/2014 04:05 AMPosted by DiEoxidE
The buff doesn't drop immediately the moment you stop to shoot. I don't have the exact mathzors, but it's roughly around .4 to .5 seconds before it falls off, so as long as you're stutter stepping, you're not dropping the buff as your character isn't standing still long enough between attacks to drop the buff.


Ah i see. So a certain amount of APS would be required to maintain the buff. Nice build.

What's your sheet dps in game? You certainly have more physical damage than me, but my sentries are only critting on average for 2m and wolves for 4-5m which is a farcry from your 9-13 sentries and 13-19 wolves. I can't even do that with harrington proc'd lol.
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i have been using a similar spec for a long time and i can say its loads of fun! I'm just having a very hard time gambling Tasker and Theo... over 10k shards spent on gloves and all i get is magefists and gladiator's =(
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This build is quite nice mate i'm wondering if i can do this can you give me tips what equips to change?
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I really like this build. I suspect as dps increases but resource management lags behind on higher torment levels we'll see more of things like this. Good job Dieoxide and thank you for posting this.

Unfortunately I have to echo the "blind masses" in that it still isn't beating out the cookie cutter I think (be it physical or fire) in terms of unloading dps in a quick fashion and doesn't focus any more on defense outside of using numbing traps to make it appealing (which could be added into any CA build in theory). For example the CA Shooting Star build (just sub ballistics in for a passive of your choice....or don't) also can use essentially the same gear to perform a potentially safer play style since you need fewer strikes and you can unload hatred faster while still throwing out entangling and having wolves engage.

Playing on this spec though definitely feels different and so certainly personal choice plays a role (for example you have long been a sentry fan if I recall), but I think with sustainability styles there is a need to focus more on toughness. I know many simply shrug and say "DH are squishy" but I definitely feel the difference when playing when I run with AR 900+ and higher life than when I don't across the torment levels.

Sure if you're over geared you can run with essentially any spec but then it's essentially a novelty build as opposed to the true maximized synergistic focus you had with your stone cold hunter. Here the big synergy is using Taskers to combine pets and sentry attack speed, but the question is "why chakram"? The key I would think is that it costs less and provides good AOE and thus your hatred pool does more damage at the expense of taking more time to do it....and that's the issue I think.

The gearing options for CA builds focus more on cost reduction typically and resource regen (reapers, cr, captains set, etc) and this Ninchakru doesn't need to so there's little reason you should be running around with less toughness I think than average. Just my thoughts from someone who hasn't hit even 300 paragon levels yet...
Edited by Saros#1692 on 5/3/2014 5:07 AM PDT
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Well done DiE!!!
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Where's the cluster arrow?

(>^^)>
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I know right lol. That shrine did nothing for me :( Also, what was up with that first Elite I faught in the first rift vid where my wolves were dead for a long time and would not revive till the elite was dead ><

Hmm.. I've actually never experienced that. I think using the companion skill again might re-summon them if they are killed in action?

I remember having 1 or 2 wolves dying on me but it revived mid-combat, but I can't remember was it cuz I used the skill when it came off cooldown.
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I've been going back and forth between Fire and Physical on my pet sentry toon. I love your build bro, I'm gonna see about getting my gear up to snuff for Physical.

edit: I've also made some small changes to my Pet-Physical build in my sticky thanks to this thread! Thanks so much Die
Edited by Oscar#1292 on 5/3/2014 6:27 AM PDT
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From memory when my wolf has died on me mid combat the icon on the skillbar is greyed out, until the timer has finished for the wolf to respawn (however long that may be) you cannot simply activate the skill to respawn (normally the skill on your bar spins as the timer ticks down, when it's greyed out you cannot see a timer anymore in order to reuse the skill), the wolf will eventually respawn of it's own accord.

05/03/2014 06:23 AMPosted by Oble
I think using the companion skill again might re-summon them if they are killed in action?


DiE, fantastic build, love it, vids were a treat :-)

Silver
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thanks for sharing :)

I guess we would have more ES alternative if Chain Gang and Heavy Burden and Justice is Served were physical, but I doubt I will use them... and with my poor skill I need to use hunger arrow or I will miss all those targets >_<
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Excellent write-up, DiE. :D

I wonder, could you explain a bit further why you opted for Chakram over a skill like, say, Multishot Full Broadside or Suppression Fire?

I'd like to here your thoughts on your build's hatred effiency, and whether you feel you could put more strain on your hatred supply than you are currently, without changing the build too much.
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05/03/2014 05:03 AMPosted by Saros
I really like this build. I suspect as dps increases but resource management lags behind on higher torment levels we'll see more of things like this. Good job Dieoxide and thank you for posting this.


Thanks :)

05/03/2014 05:03 AMPosted by Saros
Unfortunately I have to echo the "blind masses" in that it still isn't beating out the cookie cutter I think (be it physical or fire) in terms of unloading dps in a quick fashion and doesn't focus any more on defense outside of using numbing traps to make it appealing (which could be added into any CA build in theory). For example the CA Shooting Star build (just sub ballistics in for a passive of your choice....or don't) also can use essentially the same gear to perform a potentially safer play style since you need fewer strikes and you can unload hatred faster while still throwing out entangling and having wolves engage.


I expected to see this in one form or another. There's a reason why I took a while before posting, and that's because as omega-red stated earlier, I'm a perfectionist and like to test things thoroughly. I think a lot of players don't take into consideration the entire spectrum when attempting to compare skills. I've ran shooting stars (i love this skill) for most of patch 2.0 and the first week of RoS with the same mindset, and I also have all 6 pcs of the marauder set. I've spent a ton of gold rerolling skill stats just for testing and I personally have not been able to replicate the results I had when using chakram as my primary spender (not saying it can't be done, just my personal experience).

The reason I found was because unlike the other spenders of choice, I found chakram to be extremely consistent (this is a huge factor), versatile, and very cheap for the hatred cost. It covers a large area and allows for specific tactical play that I could not do when using shooting stars etc. It also allowed me to focus primarily on buffing pure damage of the overall spec rather than trying to overcompensate for weaknesses on gear, so that the entire spec is putting out high damage (balance) rather than relying solely on my spender. To put it in real time, even though yes, with shooting stars I was able to unleash burst damage faster, but that damage was confined in a small area, followed by super hard hitting rockets that I had no control over. I had to fire several shooting stars to clear an area and because of that, took me longer to clear a zone because of the lack of coverage as well as the lapse in damage because I'm having to generate enough hatred to be able to use the high hatred spender, making my output very inconsistent.

This is far from me being biased btw, as when I discovered the above while playing I was actually upset and was desperately trying to find a way to cover up those weaknesses (I !@#$ing love shooting stars). When I made the switch, I had to "learn" to like the visual aspect of chakram because lets face it, it's not the most visually pleasing "killing" skill in comparison as stuff just doesn't blow up and fly in a million pieces, but I could not deny the potency and opportunity for massive output per hatred spent from chakrams and inevitably made the switch. Glad I did though as I'm having a blast!

05/03/2014 05:03 AMPosted by Saros
Playing on this spec though definitely feels different and so certainly personal choice plays a role (for example you have long been a sentry fan if I recall), but I think with sustainability styles there is a need to focus more on toughness. I know many simply shrug and say "DH are squishy" but I definitely feel the difference when playing when I run with AR 900+ and higher life than when I don't across the torment levels.


I don't expect nor do I suggest for players to run around with the amount of toughness I have in T6. I do it purely because I like the style and danger. If a player wants to push the extremes with the spec, then go for it, but in no way am I suggesting anyone to be as glassy as I am. I do however think it's cool that the spec allows for players to have the option to shed off some toughness "if they so choose to" but it's definitely not a requirement.

05/03/2014 05:03 AMPosted by Saros
Sure if you're over geared you can run with essentially any spec but then it's essentially a novelty build as opposed to the true maximized synergistic focus you had with your stone cold hunter. Here the big synergy is using Taskers to combine pets and sentry attack speed, but the question is "why chakram"? The key I would think is that it costs less and provides good AOE and thus your hatred pool does more damage at the expense of taking more time to do it....and that's the issue I think.


Ah, so you remember the SCH :D Yeah, unfortunately I don't think i'll be able to accomplish that type of superb synergy, however the mindset and philosophy that went into creating that spec is the same with this spec as well as the bolagasm build I did after the SCH (which was just as strong as the SCH, but took an entirely different approach). I take skills that work well together and find a way to bring out the maximum damage potential *consistently* as a unit. I also strive to make them well rounded, and not "situational" potency, so I don't run into inconsistencies (hard to create specs to do that and have high output).

I already answered the "why chakram" above, but also understand that while I tend to use the 1:1 ratio of bounty to razor for reasons explained in the tutorial vid, when the situation arises (such as all the mobs are already slowed and sentries didn't put too much of a strain on my hatred pool), I do start spamming back to back chakrams for as much of a burst scenario as I possibly can, and because it's spec'd to hit pretty hard, it tends to work out well when I need it to.

What I do know is that no, I'm not going to put out more than a properly built fire CA user when it comes to burst damage on a single target like ghom/tightly clumped elite pack, nor am I going to do more sustained damage in a super long battle than a sentry user that's able to get all 7ish sentries up and running, but the one thing I do know is that the spec has the ability to generate consistent high damage output thats VERY reliable in all situations that also has great defensive capabilities, and that's what I feel is the most important part of creating a spec (balance) and players can see that pretty well in the multiple vids I provided.

This is not your typical "pick up and play I win" type spec, and it takes time learning the kinks, order of attacks and positioning to do really well with it (which is why I made a tutorial video). The end result of a player taking the time to do it is a spec that's very powerful, and really rewarding to pull off as the game play is engaging, just like the SCH and bolagasm builds in d3v.

Even if a player isn't interested in something like this, the vids show the versatility and power of a DH, and the tutorial video alone that explains the "how" and "why" can spark players interest, thinking "whoa, I didn't think about it like that" or "Hey, I never thought of that approach" and go back to theory-crafting their own cool creative spec.

I'm actually just rambling now lol, but thanks for the well thought out reply :D
Edited by DiEoxidE#1987 on 5/3/2014 9:52 AM PDT
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05/03/2014 09:01 AMPosted by RedCell
Excellent write-up, DiE. :D

I wonder, could you explain a bit further why you opted for Chakram over a skill like, say, Multishot Full Broadside or Suppression Fire?

I'd like to here your thoughts on your build's hatred effiency, and whether you feel you could put more strain on your hatred supply than you are currently, without changing the build too much.


I actually did try out multishot with this, and ALMOST made the complete switch over after playing around with it for about 4 days in a row thoroughly. Honestly, it came down to preferences.

What I found is that I had to gear more for rcr to get a good firing ratio happening, which meant more "output* for multishot, but less emphasis on pure damage. I also had to make the switch to justice is served to get my attack ratio's near what I was doing with chakrams and while that did work out well, I personally didn't like the "refocus" into rcr nor the switch to justice is served (for consistency) as the 80% slow from bounty hunter is very noticeable for my wolves/sentry output as well as survivability in general.

The spread is def better with Multishot and after using it for a while, it made me realize what the weaknesses of razor disk were (semi-explained in the tutorial vid) and ironically made me a better chakram user after learning to take more advantage of it's trajectory and thus went back to it :P Multishot does work pretty well with this though, though I think it would fair better with a different starting "foundation" than what I provided with chakrams IMO.
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05/03/2014 04:18 AMPosted by Rambo
05/03/2014 04:05 AMPosted by DiEoxidE
The buff doesn't drop immediately the moment you stop to shoot. I don't have the exact mathzors, but it's roughly around .4 to .5 seconds before it falls off, so as long as you're stutter stepping, you're not dropping the buff as your character isn't standing still long enough between attacks to drop the buff.


Ah i see. So a certain amount of APS would be required to maintain the buff. Nice build.

What's your sheet dps in game? You certainly have more physical damage than me, but my sentries are only critting on average for 2m and wolves for 4-5m which is a farcry from your 9-13 sentries and 13-19 wolves. I can't even do that with harrington proc'd lol.


the game snapshots the stats from hexing on first weapon fire while moving so if your stepping its basically always up, you can do it with any attack speed.

BTW chakram has always been underated but with the changes in 2.0 its become very powerful, its power lies in its near free spender and overall good damage, it can be tricky to use but that trickyness to certain runes is what makes it so powerful. also have to love the wall piercing mechanics, lets you hit things from around corners. Ive been using the Fire chakram a lot in conjunction with my fire CA build. Im still working on my physical build to use pets sentries etc but jus thavnt found enough pieces yet lol.

By the way serpentine is VERY powerful too with poisen gear its a near free 500% dmg skill than can be dumped. The way i use that skill is like a shotgun in a FPS, run in quick get close dump and move forward plowing through, a very good skill for middle torments or lower. Havnt tested it much on tor6 though.
Edited by METATRON#1945 on 5/3/2014 1:17 PM PDT
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its strange... its more sustained dps than fire/cluster, yet feels lackluster.

need to play with it more.
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Bravo good sir. Thanks for the time and effort putting this all together. A great thorough and well executed build/style.

Take notes new DH players, seriously. Take pointers from this kind of a player and grow yourselves as DH players. Be good to this class and it will be good to you in return.

Solid gameplay here. Really enjoy it. Looking forward to more DH parties! <3
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