Diablo® III

Dual Wield or Quiver. Whats the consensus?

Hey gys. Topic says it all. Dual 1hers or use a Quiver.

Thanks
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Too many factors to answer a very broad question

What build are you aiming to go for?
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Quiver has the advantage if most of your damage comes from a single skill.

for example, quiver could give:
20% ias
10% cc
15% skill damage
750 dex
8% rcr

dual wield in contrast could give:
130% crit damage
750 dex
8% rcr
15% ias

10% cc + 15% skill damage beats 130% crit damage for just that skill by ~4% dps.
being able to use a 2h weapon that can roll higher dex and can make better use of % weapon damage also helps.

if you are running a cluster arrow build, quiver wins. If you are running a build with multiple dmg sources like pets, sentries, cluster arrow, dual wield may win out.
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there IS no consensus. It depends on the gear you have the choices of weaponry you can use, and the Quiver you are choosing from. Assuming we're talking about top tier items, here's my take:

In an ideal world, however, I believe having a Natalya's Slayer at 2800+ Damage with perfect stats paired with a 2750+ Calamity with perfect stats, both with sockets, would be the most perfect choice to me.

However, mathematically, a small 3% edge goes to the advantage of 8% vs Elites + 15% Skill Choice you could potentially get out of an Archfiend Quiver (competes with 20% damage from MFD), if you factor in a roll with 10% CC, which would compete with 130 CHD gem of DW. In GROUP Play, however, there is no competition. Perfect Nat's + Perfect Calamity. Somebody prove me wrong
Edited by Oscar#1292 on 5/10/2014 6:23 PM PDT
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Danetta's FTW
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05/10/2014 06:05 PMPosted by Rukan
Quiver has the advantage if most of your damage comes from a single skill.

for example, quiver could give:
20% ias
10% cc
15% skill damage
750 dex
8% rcr

dual wield in contrast could give:
130% crit damage
750 dex
8% rcr
15% ias

10% cc + 15% skill damage beats 130% crit damage for just that skill by ~4% dps.
being able to use a 2h weapon that can roll higher dex and can make better use of % weapon damage also helps.

if you are running a cluster arrow build, quiver wins. If you are running a build with multiple dmg sources like pets, sentries, cluster arrow, dual wield may win out.


Not if you're using Calamity as you're dual-wielding and your CC is already high enough.

Calamity is a game-changer: the 20% MFD damage bonus easily defeats the 15% skill damage and it's non-specific -- it applies to your generator and spender. Plus, if you're using Archery, half the cc% advantage goes out the window. The only advantage would be the toughness a quiver can give you (although I've seen people running a quiver with no vitality or life %).

All that being said -- there is no consensus. Use whatever suits your play-style.
Edited by Eisenhorn#6230 on 5/10/2014 6:49 PM PDT
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05/10/2014 06:46 PMPosted by Eisenhorn
Not if you're using Calamity as you're dual-wielding and your CC is already high enough.

Calamity is a game-changer: the 20% MFD damage bonus easily defeats the 15% skill damage and it's non-specific -- it applies to your generator and spender. Plus, if you're using Archery, half the cc% advantage goes out the window. The only advantage would be the toughness a quiver can give you (although I've seen people running a quiver with no vitality or life %).

All that being said -- there is no consensus. Use whatever suits your play-style.


yeah, I was assuming no calamity. And of course it will depend a lot based on your stats.

But I can do a quick calculation, since I am fairly curious.
So I'll compare 2H Bow, 2H crossbow, Calamity + quiver, and Calamity + Natalya with each other.

Assumptions:
Here's a typical scenario we can take:
+15% CA Skill Dmg on Boots/Helmet
50% CC from everywhere except quiver/offhand
400% CD from everywhere except quiver/offhand
and 8000 dex when dual wielding as opposed to using a 2H weapon.
7% IAS from RoRG, and no other IAS.
Assuming perfect rolls on your weapons/quivers

And you'd probably get 10% weapon damage on 2 handed weapons, whereas that's probably not a good idea on dual wield.

Base DPS:
2H Crossbow: 2427.2
2H Bow: 2552.9
Hand Crossbow: 2554.4

2H Crossbow + Quiver DPS:
DPS = 2427.2
DPS *= (1 + 10% weapon damage)
DPS *= (1 + (8375/100)% from Dexterity)
DPS *= (1 + 60% * 400% from crits)
DPS *= (1 + 45% from skill)
DPS *= (1 + 27% from IAS)
= 1.417 mil

2H Bow + Quiver DPS:
DPS = 2552.9
DPS *= (1 + 10% weapon damage)
DPS *= (1 + (8375/100)% from Dexterity)
DPS *= (1 + 60% * 400% from crits)
DPS *= (1 + 45% from skill)
DPS *= (1 + 27% from IAS)
= 1.490 mil

Calamity + Quiver DPS:
DPS = 2554.4
DPS *= (1 + 10% weapon damage)
DPS *= (1 + (8000/100)% from Dexterity)
DPS *= (1 + 60% * 400% from crits)
DPS *= (1 + 45% from skill + 20% from MfD)
DPS *= (1 + 27% from IAS)
= 1.622 mil

Calamity + Natalya DPS:
DPS = 2554.4
DPS *= (1 + (8500/100)% from Dexterity + 2 piece natalya's)
DPS *= (1 + 57% * 530% from crits)
DPS *= (1 + 30% from skill + 20% from MfD)
DPS *= (1 + 22% from IAS)
= 1.616 mil

Now it's a matter of how fast these skills consume hatred relative to one another. I will use the 2H Crossbow as baseline of 1.0x hatred consumption

2H Bow consumes hatred 1.273x faster than 2H Crossbow
Calamity + Quiver consumes hatred 1.455x faster than 2H Crossbow
Calamity + Natalya consumes hatred 1.397x faster than 2H Crossbow.
Or 1.257x faster than 2H Crossbow if you roll resource cost reduction on your weapons.

Also worth keeping in mind that I did not apply an opportunity cost for Natalya's set bonuses. In actuality, you're going to have to sacrifice something for that 500 dex and 7% cc. So the values given for natalya/calamity combo in this case are somewhat optimistic.
Edited by Rukan#1394 on 5/10/2014 7:11 PM PDT
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