Diablo® III

Really disappointed by Helltraper and ST

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Really disappointed by Helltraper and Spike Traps

I finally got my Helltraper, it was a horrible roll…
    881-1066 mmd (out of [858-1049] – [1028-1304])
    less than 700 dex,
    +7% aps (balance breaking and wasted slot)
    +x% chance to bleed
    10 max discipline (only thing I liked)
    7% chance to proc (the lowest on the list)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/helltrapper-3tfdaj
Helltraper has a proc rate up to 10% that scale with our attack proc so it is really on average 2.5%, which is the same as the max cc proc on any 1hand bolt pistol, but it is divided into 3 different skill proc that will not active at the same time making its proc rate even lower.

The cast delay (not affected by cdr) is the same (as far as I can tell) as the re-arm time of Spike Trap’s 2 seconds, so if you got a sentry on the field (from the weapon), the next one will not be there until 2 seconds has passed.

It drop “free” trap devices and caltrops, but

Spike Trap is useless… the re-arm time cannot be bypassed and therefore mob will have moved away from it when it is ready. Unlike when we play with Spike Trap, we can’t set it and wait for the mobs to take the damage. The only Spike Trap that follows the mob you hit, Sticky Trap, will not detonate if the mob dies before its 2 second detonation timer finishes, so it deals no damage. Spike Trap summon by Helltrapper may deal damage once, but very unlikely dealing damage to the initial target where the Trap is created.

Caltrops drop under our feet, like how it works when we active the skill. Nothing wrong, and is my favor bonus as it save me 6 discipline each time it comes up. My choices are: Hooked Spine for Steps, Torturous Ground for Vault, Jagged Spike for Strafe, Bait the Trap for Archer

Sentry is the only type of device that deals damage the next second it is set on the screen. There is probably a timer before we can set the 3rd sentry, but I don’t exactly know. And I think this is why the weapon has a very poor proc rate.

I must ask the devs to revisit the weapon as well has our Spike Trap and Sentry. First, I want to look at the cost and reward of these 2 skills.

30 Hatred Sentry deals 200% damage (more depending on your aps and items) for 6 sec = 1200% weapon damage. Spitfire Turrent fire 2 rockets (total 140%) each second = 2040% in 6 sec.
30 Hatred Spike Trap deals 180% and after 6 sec (assume mob doesn’t move) = 540%. In 6 seconds, Echoing Blast deals 750%, Long Fuse deals 600%, Lighting Rod deals 840%, and Scatter deals 540-1620%.

None of the Spike Trap deal more damage than Sentry and its aoe is stationary (within 8 yards) where as Sentry has 45 yards shot distance and 35 yards chain distance and the damage aoe changes by the rune. Spike Trap also last 30 sec on the map, but it does not deal damage more than 3 times.

Second, I want to change the delay in these 2 skills.

Sentry should not have a cooldown. It needs an unbeatable arm/re-arm time like Spike Trap. I suggest 3 seconds but Sentry now attack once every second with 100% piercing bolts.

*Impaling Bolt*
- change to “bleed for 300% over 5 sec,” “slow for 60% and has 15% chance to be immobilized,” or “take 15% additional damage from all attacks for 2 sec,” etc.


Custom Engineering already doubles the damage of this unit, it doesn’t need to have an extra unit, but instead it should reduce the arm time to 1-1.5 seconds making Custom Engineering more profitable for Sentry without making Spike Trap horrible.

Spike Trap arm time should be removed. My change will give you this kind of behavior.
set Spike Trap,
mob triggers,
explode… re-arm after 2 sec.
Each Spike Trap now deals 3 explosions in 4 seconds instead of 6.

This is my list of changes to the runes.

= Echoing Blast =
Spike Trap can re-arm and explode until it demolishes (30 sec duration) dealing 180% weapon damage as Fire with each explosion.

= Sticky Trap =
Plant a bomb on an enemy. The monster has a 35% chance to be frozen in fear for 2 seconds. After 3 seconds, the trap explodes dealing 580% weapon damage as Fire to all enemies within 16 yards. If the monster dies before the trap explodes, the trap explodes and deal 1080% weapon damage as Fire to all other enemies within 16 yards.

= Long Fuse =
Combine 3 traps into one 16 yards trap that arms after 3 seconds. Increase the damage and re-arming time to 650% weapon damage as Fire and 3 seconds.


As of the current design, Spike Trap is in the way and makes the weapon underperforming as it creates an object on the map and wastes the chance for creating a sentry or more caltrops to grant us advantage of the battlefield.

I do not think increasing the proc rate to 20-50% or even 100% will be benefiting. The fundamental must change.
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05/10/2014 08:32 AMPosted by KirusAlufras
= Sticky Trap =
Plant a bomb on an enemy. The monster has a 35% chance to be frozen in fear for 2 seconds. After 3 seconds, the trap explodes dealing 580% weapon damage as Fire to all enemies within 16 yards. If the monster dies before the trap explodes, the trap explodes and deal 1080% weapon damage as Fire to all other enemies within 16 yards.


Spot on.
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Neat analysis and good read Kirus. (>^^)>
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@RedCell

My idea was to give players some incentive to set the bomb off, before it explode. In the current game, DH can kill almost everything even up to T4 within 2 seconds. I have no idea why the devs still haven't hotfixed the the explosion.

Sticky doesn't stack and will overlap and will very likely misplace if too many mobs are nearby. IT can be set on the ground, which is how I have been using the trap after patch.2.01. I don't think that is the plan, or is it?

Would be nice you hear more of your thoughts.

05/10/2014 12:53 PMPosted by DiEoxidE
Neat analysis and good read Kirus. (>^^)>

Thanks ^^
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Great Write up. I have found that in areas of high monster density, it ALL gets used, however, this isn't always the case, most notably during boss fights like Rift Guardian or any single target high HP mob, which is where it NEEDS to count.

There are a lot of positives to this item, but as I have recently stopped using it, I've found that I don't particularly miss it either.
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Like most of the suggestions here, although I wouldn't like sentry having an arming time, simply because it costs a good chunk of hatred, costs an action and is stationary.
Its cooldown is pretty redundant and severly weakening the skill, but an arming time would do probably more dmg, as you rarely stay in place for long and leaving a sentry to finish off some mobs can't be the only thing it is good for besides boss fights or rift guardians.
I also like the idea of it always piericng, but the whole combination could it make very strong, but that would atleast favor a good pet build, wd pets can also get pretty nasty.

For spike traps, they need not only to adjust its trigger mechanism but also its damage significantly, the damage of the skill is the same and partially even lower (?) than before the patch, while the rest of the spenders got something along the lines of a 100% dmg buff.
Spike trap is at a great disadvanatge for being stationary and dleayed, multiple explosions are cool, but not assured to hit either, so for spike traps to be good, they need to be overly efficient in comparison to flexible dmg like chakrams, multishot and CA for example.

I would even doubt to use it, if the current base dmg would e doubled from 180% to 360% as that is still just on par with a CA and the disadvanatge is not beaten by 10 hatred cost less.

Also for comparison, before 2.0, CA:lfb did like 315% + 4x 100% i think = 715% in an ideal case. Spike trap echoing blast did 250% with 3 explosions = 750% in an ideal case.

Now we have loaded for bear dealing 770% + 4x 220% = 1650% and echoing blasts at 3x 250% = 750%, thats less than half for 75% of the hatred cost and a very high disadvantage in positioning and kill speed.
On top of that we have no longer the heal to tank higher torments and no passive synergising with traps in an offensive way. Also no legendary effectively improving the skill, chanon bolter is a joke with its cooldown and alternatives in buriza, krider and calamity the likely best dh weapons.
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@Raikh

Sure, let us suggest that we get rid of the cooldown and arm time, aka the prep time. But by doing so, we have redesign the skill just to deal "damage" and nothing else. Look at Hydra (wizard): no delay, very low damage, slow attack speed, and only 1 unit unless buffed by a legendary. Is this the kind of skill you want see?

IMO, the delay in Sentry is why the devs can stretch its potential. A demon hunter does not need any cdr to play very efficient, and if you stack 40-50% you might do better with the cooldown abilities but not far ahead of someone who has 0.

I use Spike Trap at T4, T5 when playing in groups, and the damage output of Scatter is excellent, for the cost. 30 Hatred is very cheap for our class. And similar to CA it deals its damage faster than Sentry but if you look at the long run (over a course of a single rift clean), it is also like CA which is far behind most of our other spenders but only shine when you can get the mob to cluster up and sit there for you to blast.

The damage of Spike Trap is also increased by 100% but over 6 seconds instead of 1.2 seconds. It went from 225 per 30 to 180x3 = 540 per 30.

Its like how Oscar said above

05/10/2014 03:33 PMPosted by Oscar
There are a lot of positives to this item, but as I have recently stopped using it, I've found that I don't particularly miss it either.


Sentry and Spike Trap isn't useful, when we can out dps the content so easily and recover our resource with something like reaper's or hex-pants of MY w/ generator. There isn't anything left for them to deal damage. I also don't want the old MP10 stuff where mobs have 40x our output dps and we end up using spike trap and rapid fire to normalize that difference.

I will let the dev decide on the number, but I think 180-250% is all it (no-rune Spike Trap) needs. IF the re-arm time was like pre-loot.2.01 (0.6 sec) the overall design of the skill will still need adjustments.

btw... CA with the grenades is meh... Load of Bear is not the best rune, neither is Cluster Bomb. I wonder if you know what I mean.
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05/10/2014 03:33 PMPosted by Oscar
Great Write up. I have found that in areas of high monster density, it ALL gets used, however, this isn't always the case, most notably during boss fights like Rift Guardian or any single target high HP mob, which is where it NEEDS to count.


I don't know. Boss fight maybe, but I focused my test on cleaning Curse Chest where the mobs spawn almost unlimited. In the end, the sentries I was able to set on the map is always 2, and a few traps in the end that didn't get used.

This is the build I used in the end, which I found most efficient for Helltrapper

I call this The Bow without Bore
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#kaYiPl!bSTR!Zccbba
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