Diablo® III

[spoilers] Thinking about story after a year

blah blah blah so people don't get spoilers in the preview
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Ok, after a year and some time to think about the story, I have a few observations.

Kinda like the twist in WoW at the end of ICC, there are some really cool parts to the story in D3, but the problem is that the plot hacks to get to those twists are really problematic. Tyrael not recognizing Leah as the daughter of Diablo is absurd, especially given her demonic magic and the reasonably deduced fact that she was born right about the time the Dark Wanderer was around. And he's the new Archangel of Wisdom? Can we get a recount here?

It's also problematic that Lea-blo doesn't rip Tyrael's head off right at the top of Bastion's Keep watchtower while he's weak. Or that Adria doesn't kill him. Casting down one of the five archangels isn't something they'd pass up. That's a little easier to look past, but it still tests suspension of disbelief.

I love the little animated movie they made about Imperius (not in the game) and it did a great job of establishing his character in just a few short minutes. But at the end of Act 4 when he's somehow surprised that Diablo reached the Crystal Arch...what the heck was he defending? He's the Archangel of Valor and just decided to leave the Crystal Arch undefended? It's kinda dumb.

(I am glad we don't fight him, though, it'd have been cool but not...in-line with the personalities of the heroes.)

The fact that Tyrael is trying to put Belial and Azmodan in soulstones is also a huge plot hack. Tyrael already knows that doesn't work!!! And the plan with what to do with it after all 7 of them are in there changes. First Adria's going to shatter it, even though when that happens Tyrael says pretty matter-of-factly that it means their souls just get out and they're loose again. Then Tyrael tries to hide it, which is more sensible. But the fact that Tyrael is going along with the plan to hand over the most powerful artifact in creation to a witch?
Edited by Astinus#1952 on 5/31/2014 1:56 PM PDT
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Pffff , tell me , did you happen to know the Leah is the daughter of Diablo when you 1st met her ? Nope , yet we helped her , does it make us looks like a fool too ?

Tyrael is not the Arch angel of wisdom until we kill Diablo , and he is not the aspect of wisdom to begin with , so here we got a big , unknow soulstone that can trap anything , how cool is that ? And remember in D2 , we actually smashed the soulstone that contain Mes soul , may be it will work here too ? nope , just theory until Tyrael realized it , because the black soulstone turned out doesn't work like the same sould stone that he carries .

Diablo went straight for Heaven because of 3 things :

+ The ultimate destruction of Heaven by shattering the Crystal arch , kill all angel in 1 move .
+ You the almighty Nephalem is busy looting leg / repairing stuff / rage chat with your clan and will go after him soon .
+ The mortal Tyrael is not a Nephalem but an annoying mortal and thus in Diablo 's opinion , not worth sparing some of his precious time to kill .
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05/31/2014 01:46 PMPosted by Astinus
blah blah blah so people don't get spoilers in the preview
blah
blah
blah

Ok, after a year and some time to think about the story, I have a few observations.

Kinda like the twist in WoW at the end of ICC, there are some really cool parts to the story in D3, but the problem is that the plot hacks to get to those twists are really problematic. Tyrael not recognizing Leah as the daughter of Diablo is absurd, especially given her demonic magic and the reasonably deduced fact that she was born right about the time the Dark Wanderer was around. And he's the new Archangel of Wisdom? Can we get a recount here?

It's also problematic that Lea-blo doesn't rip Tyrael's head off right at the top of Bastion's Keep watchtower while he's weak. Or that Adria doesn't kill him. Casting down one of the five archangels isn't something they'd pass up. That's a little easier to look past, but it still tests suspension of disbelief.

I love the little animated movie they made about Imperius (not in the game) and it did a great job of establishing his character in just a few short minutes. But at the end of Act 4 when he's somehow surprised that Diablo reached the Crystal Arch...what the heck was he defending? He's the Archangel of Valor and just decided to leave the Crystal Arch undefended? It's kinda dumb.

(I am glad we don't fight him, though, it'd have been cool but not...in-line with the personalities of the heroes.)

The fact that Tyrael is trying to put Belial and Azmodan in soulstones is also a huge plot hack. Tyrael already knows that doesn't work!!! And the plan with what to do with it after all 7 of them are in there changes. First Adria's going to shatter it, even though when that happens Tyrael says pretty matter-of-factly that it means their souls just get out and they're loose again. Then Tyrael tries to hide it, which is more sensible. But the fact that Tyrael is going along with the plan to hand over the most powerful artifact in creation to a witch?


Several things are wrong with this. Leah using demonic magic doesn't tip anything off given the fact that nephalems are capable of using both angelic and demonic powers given the fact that we're both. Especially since the world stone was destroyed nephalems true powers are awakening. Unexplained bursts of magic power? Sounds right in line with awakening nephalem potential. She was born around the same time as the dark wanderer? So were many people. Why wasn't Tyrael killed at the top of bastion's keep? It would be foolish to do so. Tyrael IS weak which is the whole point. It's the argument of killing a demon lord vs trapping it. Tyrael is already weak. Kill him and a new Angel of Justice will be born from the crystal arch. Heaven is weaker with Tyrael right where he is.

Diablo's plan was to destroy the angel's unity and Tyrael's state is a result of exactly that. Adria claims she's going to destroy it but not just destroy it. She claims she had a ritual that can make sure they can't ever come back. It's a culmination of destroying it at the height of the ritual. Of course this was all bogus. Some other parts you mentioned? Yes they're plot holes but I felt like clearing up a few things.
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Actually that power came from Diablo himself not her, she herself tell you this 'power feel unnatural' in act 1 when she join you.
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Reslin that's a pretty good answer to Diablo not killing Tyrael, although from what lore I know a new angel wouldn't necessarily just pop out of the Crystal Arch immediately. Plus a new angel would possibly not have all of Tyrael's experience.

I disagree that Tyrael could've thought Leah was an "awakening nephalem." She explodes with reddish rage-magic and kills Maghda's cronies right in front of him! That alone is suspicious, but the fact that her mother is a witch is overwhelmingly suspicious. And then when the dead lords of hell get sucked into the black soulstone...Tyrael still just goes along with it! Even our character at that point should've said..."Hey, I don't really trust Zoltun Kulle, but he's got some pretty valid points..."

On top of all that Tyrael is characterized as a wise angel who has been around for presumably hundreds or thousands of years. He's also very familiar with Diablo, and should've recognized what was going on.
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06/01/2014 02:49 PMPosted by Astinus
Reslin that's a pretty good answer to Diablo not killing Tyrael, although from what lore I know a new angel wouldn't necessarily just pop out of the Crystal Arch immediately. Plus a new angel would possibly not have all of Tyrael's experience.

I disagree that Tyrael could've thought Leah was an "awakening nephalem." She explodes with reddish rage-magic and kills Maghda's cronies right in front of him! That alone is suspicious, but the fact that her mother is a witch is overwhelmingly suspicious. And then when the dead lords of hell get sucked into the black soulstone...Tyrael still just goes along with it! Even our character at that point should've said..."Hey, I don't really trust Zoltun Kulle, but he's got some pretty valid points..."

On top of all that Tyrael is characterized as a wise angel who has been around for presumably hundreds or thousands of years. He's also very familiar with Diablo, and should've recognized what was going on.


It doesn't matter that it's "Diablo's power." In the end, Leah is a Nephalem as are all human. Who have the power of both angels/demons. In fact, Nephalem have the capabilities of being stronger than any demon or angel. A blast of demonic fury isn't unheard of for Nephalem. Her mother being a witch doesn't matter either considering that there's more than one witch in the diablo lore. Tyrael is also a mortal now and has lost most of his angelic powers/abilities. His only real power he has anymore comes from his sword. Essentially, Tyrael is weaker than an angel which is weaker that what humans are capable of.

Don't forget that uldyssian, one of the most powerful Nephalems, awakened into his power later in life and he was a simple farmer. Her power awakening at the death of her uncle who raised her all her life? Again, not that surprising in the diablo lore. Things like that are expected with the destruction of the world stone.

Adria trapping the demon souls in the black soul stone? It probably made our characters suspicious but at the same time Adria did aid aiden in defeating Diablo in the past (through her services.) also from their point of view she was really on the ball with the whole thing but no the characters NEVER trusted her completely. They make comments about it and the biggest one is when Leah is looking for her mother and the various characters claim she may not be who Leah thinks she is.

However, at the same time, our characters had no other alternative to the black soul stone. Destroy Belial and Azmodan? They'll return and do it again. What if our characters are dead by then? What if there's no Nephalem as strong as our characters when they return? Listen to Zoltun Kuule? I agree with you there but our characters believed he was evil and double crossing them. They figured he was coming up with excuses to go back on his deal. Not to mention he did want to rule mankind (admittedly, I would argue if he succeeded in making everyone a God, why not? But that's a different debate altogether.)

Tyrael might be very familiar with Diablo but he's also familiar with Nephalem and what they're capable of. Trust me, exploding with demonic fury? Isn't that shocking. I mean, Adria tapped into her demonic heritage through a ritual and became a full blown demon.

*Edit* I will admit the story is "Weak" but it is "workable." Also while a new angel won't pop up instantly it will pop up. Diablo has spent his entire time trying to destroy the angels unity. There's an animated short about it and it's been one of diablo's big long term plans. The angels always won due to their unity. The demons had no unity. So diablo broke the angels unity and absorbed his brothers so he had all their power in one body. In a sense uniting his brothers and breaking the angels. Turning the whole thing around. A new Angel with a clear line of thinking that hasn't been damaged from his machinations isn't ideal. Tyrael is fine where he is. Weak and useless.
Edited by Reslin#1758 on 6/1/2014 8:14 PM PDT
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