Diablo® III

*The 4 most-suggested changes to Barbarians:

1. Able to achieve 100% WotB uptime without a shrine.
2. Dual wield with at least one 2-hander.
3. More/better fury generation (or reduced cost for spenders)
4. Improvements to fury spenders (via synergy, legendary effects, or straight buffs)

Edit: 2.1 review Aug 19 -

1. Perma WotB is almost a possibility, but not achievable with max CDR gear + Gogok of Swiftness (20.5s cooldown). Three new items bumped the max CDR for Barbs from 65.9% to 77.2% (if I calc'd correctly) - Leoric's Crown, Gogok of Swiftness, and Vigilante Belt. None of those were WotB specific.

Further, even this sub-permanent cooldown level is impractical because it requires several 8 & 10% CDR affixes in slots you don't want to do that in (Amulet, Capt Crimson's Set, Vigilante Belt, rings [where now CDR competes with mandatory sockets as well]).

2. We can't dual wield with a 2 handed weapon. The 2-hander readjustment addressed this nicely for me, though. That said, I've wondered if applying a Heavenly Strength-like penalty to a Barb passive that allowed them to DW 2-handers would work.

3. Earthen Might is back - good. Primary skills generate something like 12% more fury in some cases - not so useful. Ancient's Fury generates 33% more fury - not bad. Mighty Weapons generate 100% more fury via Weapons Master - bad.

Overall this has largely been unaddressed. The best fury generation we had prior to 2.1 was snappshotted Ancients, and what we're left with doesn't match up well with that.

4. Major disappointment. The biggest buffs to spenders so far have come from the 2h buff and legendary gems - not from barb-specific legendary affixes and certainly not from base buffs to the skills themselves.

New items: Lamentation (Rend belt), Remorseless (HotA spawns extra Ancients) Vile Ward (Furious Charge damage increase for each enemy hit).

Vile Ward is completely friggin off-the-charts powerful, but the only relationship it has with spenders is that it discourages them further. Remorseless and Lamentation don't make their buffed skills build-defining. Remorseless beig season only means we haven't gotten to play with much it yet, but the early returns are that it's a lame gimmick. Rend needs more than Lamentation is giving it.

Fury of the Vanished Peak (half cost SS) is good now because of the 2-hander buff and the new SS +%dmg affix.
Edited by Agency#1564 on 8/19/2014 11:24 AM PDT
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0. Bring back into the fray
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0. Bring back into the fray


Yep, and that one fits nearly into #3, improved fury gen.
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Why 100% uptime here no fury problems there, dw bigger weapons ..? Sounds boring, is that really what they all want?!

Hope Blizz just makes various builds/ abilities more viable to compete with leap/earthquake, thats imo the issue with barbs. So yeah 4 sounds fun.
Edited by chunk#2894 on 6/23/2014 4:58 PM PDT
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Why 100% uptime here no fury problems there, dw bigger weapons ..? Sounds boring, is that really what they all want?!

Hope Blizz just makes various builds/ abilities more viable to compete with leap/earthquake, thats imo the issue with barbs. So yeah 4 sounds fun.


Yes. We need a wider variety of builds. Leap/Earthquake isn't remotely competitive with most other classes' "best" builds, and yet it's about all Barbs have.
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06/23/2014 05:45 PMPosted by Agency
Yes. We need a wider variety of builds. Leap/Earthquake isn't remotely competitive with most other classes' "best" builds, and yet it's about all Barbs have.


True; but do remember it's only been 3 months since release, and a lot of the old builds took 6-12 months for people to figure out and gear for. Since builds are so item dependant, and items are very random, trying new build ideas takes a long time and the process is literally random. It could very well be the case that other classes have players who have randomly found good builds, and Barb players have not yet. Though it could also be the case that we have already seen the best of the Barbarian and some buffs are needed. IMO 3 months of time is not nearly long enough to learn a game. Guild Wars had a 4 month long season coming off a small 1 month change (so basically the game was locked down for 5 months without any changes) and players were still coming up with new insanely batshat crazy builds at the very end of the season. Or just look at StarCraft :p Long periods of time between changes, and people figure out all sorts of weird and bizarre ways to kill each other. Street Fighter 2 was the same way, Arcade games don't have versions or updates, so the game people were given was the game they had to play, and in SF2 players were coming up with crazy stuff years and years after the fact.
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@pug

Absolutely, there's a ton of room for innovation, and I say that's true for all classes. However, I don't think barbs are falling behind due to lack of innovation.. Barbs are getting badly outclassed in cookie-cutter vs cookie-cutter comparisons, which speaks to the class's general weakness atm.
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06/23/2014 07:12 PMPosted by Agency
@pug

Absolutely, there's a ton of room for innovation, and I say that's true for all classes. However, I don't think barbs are falling behind due to lack of innovation.. Barbs are getting badly outclassed in cookie-cutter vs cookie-cutter comparisons, which speaks to the class's general weakness atm.


How long have you been playing for? :p

Barb's being the most out-classed is nothing new. Since Day 0 every other class has done better, almost always because they can do rapid AOE damage and kill things off-screen while they're already moving on to the next pile of trash. Even with arguably the best Barb build ever, WW, Barb's were still outclassed on D3 Rankings (in terms of XP gained & item farming). Exploits & Bugs have considerably increased the effectiveness of the other classes, the early DH bug skyrocked DH's to an advantage so far into the abyss no other class really ever caught up.

Blizzard doesn't balance their games so much as they give each class an unfair (bug/exploit) boost in a round-robin kind of way. They did it for WoW and D2, and D3 is no different. Everyone gets their "turn" to be godly, then their class is nerfed into oblivion so they are at the bottom of the round-robin queue, and life continues.
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except barbs and warriors op time last a week intile they are the bottom of the op scale for months apon months while the other classes take a turn being op while barbs in d3 and warriors in wow get crapped on. what happen when warriors in mop where not trash and could hold thier own. people complain so much that warriors got a nerf,but it wasn't bad but thier mop release was perfect. and watch druids say warriors arn't bad. (goes into bear forms tanks the captain and 4 soldiers on timeless isle while he makes a sammich)

barbs are simply wow warrior. got put on the bottom and everybody is used to them being there so nobody plays so blizzard ignores them.
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seriously get rid of sword and board and turn that to bul kathos strength ability to weild two handers in both hands. There is not a single skill that uses shield why do they even have that ? no barb is gonna use a shield lol The description of barb is a warrior who doesn't feel pain he don't need a shield wth.
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Blizzard Employee
Posts: 2,279
I'd like to encourage all of you to keep this thread going. I've been on a mini-vacation, but I'm back now, and interested in seeing how this conversation evolves over the coming weeks. We're still intending to release the patch 2.1 PTR by the end of the month, and that should create some interesting shifts in discussion.

So, what are your top 4 suggestions on how to improve Barbarians?
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06/24/2014 01:03 PMPosted by Grimiku
I'd like to encourage all of you to keep this thread going. I've been on a mini-vacation, but I'm back now, and interested in seeing how this conversation evolves over the coming weeks. We're still intending to release the patch 2.1 PTR by the end of the month, and that should create some interesting shifts in discussion.

So, what are your top 4 suggestions on how to improve Barbarians?


i think you should ask this over at wizard forum too they need attention as much as barb...
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06/24/2014 01:03 PMPosted by Grimiku
I'd like to encourage all of you to keep this thread going. I've been on a mini-vacation, but I'm back now, and interested in seeing how this conversation evolves over the coming weeks. We're still intending to release the patch 2.1 PTR by the end of the month, and that should create some interesting shifts in discussion.

So, what are your top 4 suggestions on how to improve Barbarians?


1. Make sword and board viable in soloing T5-6
2. FIX the mighty weapons (and maybe belts?), they suck compared to other class weapons.
3. Remove Fury degeneration and decrease cost of fury spenders.
4. Make more 2Handers viable

EDIT: Thought of more improvements
5. Improve Raekor set, the four piece bonus is really bad (change it to "Furious Charge Cooldown reduced to 1s on single targets")
6. Make range barb builds more viable T5-6
Edited by Furies#1645 on 6/24/2014 1:18 PM PDT
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1. make 2 handers cool for them

2. improve mobility

3. make using a shield viable

4. more healing
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06/24/2014 01:07 PMPosted by Furies
Make more 2Handers viable


For barbarians, yes. For all classes other than just crusader, yes. Please, tired of destroying 2hs and going UGH when one drops...
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You guys are crazy to say that Barbs have always been outclassed. Wiz and Barb have both had some time at the top of the power charts, yet one patch comes along and you guys all cry that you're the worst at everything. More build diversity is 100% agreed upon, and I also agree that every class should have a fairly even cookie build that isn't entirely gear dependent. But come on, you guys are like a bunch of 12 year-olds clamoring for God-mode.
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1. Itemization blandness in Mighty Weapons/Belts, need a dps belt to compete with Witching Hour/Harringtons, belt being a premium slot at the moment, Barbs should get a game changing one that is dps oriented
2. Spender damage is not competitive and does not scale with more difficult content, Boulder Toss AOE too small and skill too clunky to be fun, leads to inconsistency and punishing game play. Overall dps is also bad, burst dps worse, hope to see both fixed by spender changes. (can be itemization or some buffs to spenders themselves or both)
3. Rune selection in current abilities makes some elements sub-par, see lightning(bad EQ and no Ancient Spear), lowest damage spenders/lack of utility in abilities, Physical(No EQ)
4. Many really bad passives, every class has a few but some of the Barb ones are just beyond terrible
Edited by soci#1609 on 6/24/2014 1:19 PM PDT
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Agree: Barbs should be able to dual-wield 2-handers, make it a passive as already suggested if you want, but this was my first issue with the class when D3 came out as it took a step backwards from D2.

Agree: Remove sword and board, it doesn't fit their style (that's why we have crusader now)

Blizz, You will have to fix 2-handers/mighty gear as well.
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100% WoTB is ridiculous. Why not just buff barbs 10% crit chance. Then increase IAS, movement speed, and dodge 20% and make them immune to CC to boot. Noone else has 100% uptime of their cooldown abilities. If you want to use it more, get some cooldown reduction like everyone else does.

My main gripe with barbs and why I don't play him much anymore is lack of class specific items. Simple as that. They have fewer than any other class which leads to wayyyy to many crappy weapons and belts being dropped. I swear, if it wasn't a belt or weapon, it was an ammy, bracer, or ring. Its probably better now with the increase to set drops, but early RoS was so bad. Just look at my barbs profile. That was 70 something paragon levels worth of crap. Every other character is the reaming 40 something.

Other than that, maybe a way to make 2h viable. Even without the fact that you lose a crit gem, everything feels so much slower. Rage generation is terrible too. In fact, rage generation is too slow all around. The only class I feel like i have more resource problem with is the demon hunter, and thats because their spenders are so bad and everyone feels forced to use cluster arrow which was never meant to be a primary spender(a topic for another thread).
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1.Buff WW barbs
2.Buff WW barbs
3.Buff WW barbs
4.Buff WW barbs
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