Diablo® III

Why stupify the game more by removing dodge?

07/12/2014 12:40 PMPosted by DrownedElf

Funny how other classes get to do that with no penalty.

What class is that?

Also, there are, in FACT, diminishing returns on armor and resist all. You can easily see this on your character sheet. You're getting your terminology screwed up. What you may have meant is that the EHP from dodge/RA may not suffer diminishing returns, which it may or may not - I haven't graphed the curve and solved the linear EHP since Vanilla. The curve changed in RoS. Are you sure you want to continue faking stat knowledge?
Edited by Throe#1878 on 7/12/2014 1:00 PM PDT
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06/17/2014 11:36 AMPosted by Nevalistis
the exchange of Dodge to more reliable survivability stats like Armor and more accessible All Resist should provide you roughly the same amount of survivability, and overall you shouldn't notice a big difference


They did say that after all these changes monks will end up with the same survivability. This means that improved monk survival was never their intention. So don't expect to do better despite the damage buffs in the next patch. Indeed, after they buffed some monk damage, there was frantic dismantling of monk toughness at the core. The intent was to pull survivability back to the same level but this endeavor flamed too much excitement that in their blind fervor they pulled monk survivability way further back...like 6 feet under.

Some hope that nerfing ep will eventually force blizz to raise monk damage more. But I think the days of monk buffs has already passed and the raining nerf hammer is now in season. Who actually likes gaining a burst in attack speed after using dashing strike? Well, i'm not sure if anyone would actually use this when there are better options. But the dash stun rune was actually part of my raiment build...both an offense and defense. But I guess I have to say goodbye to that as well and will be missed together with owe and sti.
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07/12/2014 12:02 PMPosted by Alukat
07/12/2014 11:59 AMPosted by Blashyrkh
Tell me something: What MP level did you play back in vanilla?


started with MP 3 (when MP has been released) and when 2.0 has been introduced , i've been at MP6/7, no AH used of course...... and also i've gone sometimes into MP 10 to kill some trash mobs there ^^


MP10 With that DH? Not sure if you're just trolling me here, or it just took you 5 minutes to kill a white pack...

07/12/2014 12:25 PMPosted by Alukat
@Blashyrkh , all slots with dex gems and not a single resistance/armor gem but complaining that the monsters do to much damage.....you gotta be kidding....


I used diamonds for a while. Didn't really make much of a difference in T3+and most definitely wasn't even worth losing a huge chunk of dps from 1800 dexterity. Of course, you'd understand this if you had actually played anything above T1. As I've mentioned before, dexterity provides fake toughness, because dodge isn't a reliable defensive stat. Sheet toughness is irrelevant when your real defensive potential isn't even reflected by that number. You could try this just by playing a DH for a while and then switching over to a STr or Int class right after with similar toughness value. It simply doesn't compare. You can also stack vitality, which has been demonstrated to provide fake toughness, giving you a flamboyant 500k+ healthpool, and I guarantee you it won't do a damn thing for a DH under the current framework .

Despite that, my DH has a higher toughness value than the average high-end DH, which oscilates somewhere between 2.5m and 3.5m toughness, for many, even in HC. Not like that's relevant, given the overall squishiness DHs suffer from thanks to that sub-par stat. With the dexterity change, that situation will change, finally, and we'll be able to build some proper toughness without having to sacrifice a large portion of our dps while other classes get it built in their mainstat. That's precisely what many of us were looking for. If you had taken the time to test it on the PTR, you'd realize how much sturdier the DH class feels now, but since you refuse to test this changes on your own, I won't even waste more time trying to make you see how flawed your argument is.

It's a pretty unoriginal change, but it's pretty practical and most definitely welcome for the time being.
Edited by Blashyrkh#1824 on 7/12/2014 7:24 PM PDT
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07/12/2014 07:14 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
MP10 With that DH? Not sure if you're just trolling me here, or it just took you 5 minutes to kill a white pack...


not with this gear.... with some gear which was worse than my actual......zerg-build made it possible to kill a horde of mp 10 mobs almost instantly...... traps + rain of vengeance - bombardement, which has been removed....

07/12/2014 07:14 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
I used diamonds for a while. Didn't really make much of a difference in T3+and most definitely wasn't even worth losing a huge chunk of dps from 1800 dexterity.


lol then use 3 diamonds and 3 dex gems , balance your gear..... also you are lacking the dmg reduction secondary affix rolls.....

07/12/2014 07:14 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
As I've mentioned before, dexterity provides fake toughness, because dodge isn't a reliable defensive stat.


it isn't reliable, that's true.... that's why you have to balance your gear and you've got to adjust the way you play (this isn't a barb!) and all you're saying is... "I neither want to balance my equipment nor farming the necessary gear, just change the game".....

if you want a class which can survive pretty much everything with no to little effort, then play barb....

07/12/2014 07:14 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
You can also stack vitality, which has been demonstrated to provide fake toughness, giving you a flamboyant 500k+ healthpool


LOL , armor + resistance + life regeneration..... life regeneration even mitigates the floor effect dots......

07/12/2014 07:14 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
With the dexterity change, that situation will change, finally


DH will just become another brainafk class.... awesome.....if you can't handle a class there are 5 other classes!

07/12/2014 07:14 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
If you had taken the time to test it on the PTR, you'd realize how much sturdier the DH class feels now


sturdiness is lame.....
Edited by Alukat#2633 on 7/12/2014 10:02 PM PDT
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remember vanilla inferno?
the dh could SS and avoid things
first class to beat the game.

lol escape radius didnt even exist then either....

man... d3 is alienating the ONLY group that DOES play
... the long time diablo players....
by making it more casual and less interesting, who are they trying to get to play the game now?
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07/04/2014 10:16 PMPosted by Toosalty
my monk has a 70.8% chance to dodge ALL INCOMING DAMAGE SOURCES so that means those arcane beams boss aeos everything where as armour and resist only reduce the dmg,


I'm assuming you're aware that Dodge does not work on most Elite Affixes.


It doesn't work on Thorns, Arcane Sentry, Cold or Poison. It works on all others though.

I've dodged critical shots that would have otherwise killed/insta-gibbed me.

Changing Dexterity to Armour instead of Dodge is basically allowing DH and Monk to sit and facetank about 75% of the trash mobs that only use physical. However it is actually reducing our survival SIGNIFICANTLY against elemental damage trash mobs, bosses and RGs. Currently we can survive and dodge about 50-60% of the elemental attacks, but not anymore.

Armour won't help us - it'll be like a hot knife through butter.

A better solution would be to make the Dexterity amount get split between Armour AND All-Resist. At least that will make us more robust across the board, but not able to tank either.
Edited by F00#2219 on 7/13/2014 4:54 AM PDT
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Because DEX is about skills pertaining to the use of hands..

I dont see it having anything to do with feet/leg movements which is AGILITY.

Unless you can prove to me that your Monk uses his HANDS to run around, then YES, DODGE should not be removed.

DEX instead should give MONK/DH ability to Parry with weapons. Parry should prevent damage as compared to Shield Block which reduces damage.
Edited by ragnakore#2796 on 7/13/2014 4:58 AM PDT
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07/13/2014 04:56 AMPosted by ragnakore
Because DEX is about skills pertaining to the use of hands..

I dont see it having anything to do with feet/leg movements which is AGILITY.


dex·ter·i·ty [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA
noun
1.
skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
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because they know whats fun!
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07/13/2014 08:09 AMPosted by HurlingBlood
because they know whats fun!
Apparently, the idea of sparse game population is fun, because this ensures more of it.
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Dodge was removed from the game...but it still shows up under detailed character stats....?
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anyone that thinks dex adding to dodge is better than adding to armor doesn't know what they are talking about

this is a change people asked for because they knew dex to dodge SUCKED
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Passive dodge didn't add a reliable gameplay effect.
Real dodge (by moving) adds a gameplay effect. We react and choose to walk out a plagued ground or a frozen sphere. We play well when we dodge a molten or approach a mortar.

Since passive dodge is frustrating in enemies, none had dodge.
It just created a hiatus, where dexters were squishy when compared to INT/STR users.

----
Now the primary stat system needs a fix.
(I supposed it's last iteration was due the auction house)
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A lot of threads suggested implementation of a "glancing blow" that would reduce damage taken if a player didn't successfully dodge. Combine that with items that increase dodge chance, and we've got ourselves an interesting mechanic.
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