Diablo® III

2+ years still no proper PVP

Leave the poor horse alone.
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07/12/2014 02:10 PMPosted by Dispirit
07/12/2014 02:05 PMPosted by Eschaton
...
Well, that response is not unexpected from you but it does raise a really interesting question: why should they bother? I'm quite certain that the result wouldn't be up to your 'standards' either or most of the others that post here all the time about this. So why bother? Why invest the money and the time when you can get to a better and more structured PVP experience with HotS?

It's a question that you and everyone else needs to answer in a very convincing way after two years. You may not care for my views on the matter but as a practical thing saying 'you promised' isn't going to get it done. There have to be a lot of good solid reasons to add it to the game at this point since it's clear there are as many or more people against it as for it. Saying platitudes like "PVP is the essence of Diablo" or "Diablo has no longevity without it" isn't going to work. The first is purely opinion and the second is easily answered by the simple fact that they'll continue to release expansions for it until it's not worth it. Simply having people playing for 10 years ganking one another isn't making them any money.

There are a ton of "Let's Have PVP" posts and threads to be seen here. A ton. Fully half of them can be divided up into maybe two dozen people. That's not going to be enough.


because diablo 1 and 2 were amazing and some people spent years of their lives on them so they don't want to see the franchise turn to crap. nothing will change if we don't make our voices heard.


I can just about betcha if you tossed some new colors and textures onto D1 and 2, gave it a new name, and released it. It would fail, terribly.

In fact, its pretty much been done before. If only i could remember the name, oh yeah thats right. They sucked.
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07/12/2014 02:10 PMPosted by Dispirit
because diablo 1 and 2 were amazing and some people spent years of their lives on them so they don't want to see the franchise turn to crap.

You think posting 'diablo 1 and 2 were amazing' is going to change the mind of anyone-who-really matters and make the case for PVP? OK.
Edited by Eschaton#1854 on 7/12/2014 2:25 PM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
7805
07/12/2014 02:24 PMPosted by Eschaton
07/12/2014 02:10 PMPosted by Dispirit
because diablo 1 and 2 were amazing and some people spent years of their lives on them so they don't want to see the franchise turn to crap.

You think posting 'diablo 1 and 2 were amazing' is going to change the mind of anyone-who-really matters and make the case for PVP? OK.


you know why there were amazing? they had supported and competitive pvp. so yes....
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07/12/2014 02:26 PMPosted by Dispirit
you know why there were amazing? they had supported and competitive pvp. so yes....

That's a single opinion, not a decent justification for Blizzard to spend any amount of money giving you more than you have now.

At some level I agree with you. Blizzard made a lot of noise about PVP two years ago and didn't come through with it. But they've moved on, the game has moved on and now Blizzard has some free alternatives in the offing for those who prefer PVP over PVE. They really have no incentive at all to do this for D3. You're going to have to give them some and it's going to have to be a lot better than that and 'you promised'.

Once Heroes of the Storm is out hardly anyone is going to plunk down $80 just to do PVP in D3. That's the wall you and everyone else has to overcome. Again, at this point, Blizzard isn't making any money at all by going all out on PVP just to have people doing it on their servers. That time has come and gone. They're just too polite to say this.

You don't even need to answer this. I realize that I may be just doing some troll-feeding here but on the small chance you're really sincere about it you'll need to do better than this to have any chance that it will happen. Maybe it's a matter of getting those that really want to PVP onto your friend's list, organizing something that might work on a clan or community basis with brawling and show some actual in-game support for PVP.

Blizzard knows how many people are doing anything at all with brawling. If it's largely deserted, then that's another strike against you.
Edited by Eschaton#1854 on 7/12/2014 2:42 PM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
7805
07/12/2014 02:38 PMPosted by Eschaton
07/12/2014 02:26 PMPosted by Dispirit
you know why there were amazing? they had supported and competitive pvp. so yes....

That's a single opinion, not a decent justification for Blizzard to spend any amount of money giving you more than you have now.

At some level I agree with you. Blizzard made a lot of noise about PVP two years ago and didn't come through with it. But they've moved on, the game has moved on and now Blizzard has some free alternatives in the offing for those who prefer PVP over PVE. They really have no incentive at all to do this for D3. You're going to have to give them some and it's going to have to be a lot better than that and 'you promised'.

Once Heroes of the Storm is out hardly anyone is going to plunk down $80 just to do PVP in D3. That's the wall you and everyone else has to overcome. Again, at this point, Blizzard isn't making any money at all by going all out on PVP just to have people doing it on their servers. That time has come and gone. They're just too polite to say this.

You don't even need to answer this. I realize that I may be just doing some troll-feeding here but on the small chance you're really sincere about it you'll need to do better than this to have any chance that it will happen.


the expansion sold 1/5th the copies of the original. know why? because people noticed after vanilla that the game wasn't Diablo anymore because it lacked pvp/proper itemization. i think that's a pretty good reason to revert to old ways and create a quality game with a quality pvp experience. just saying. BOOM! AND DOWN GOES VENRUKI!
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07/12/2014 02:43 PMPosted by Dispirit
the expansion sold 1/5th the copies of the original. know why?

Yeah, I do. Expansions never sell as many copies as the original game. Especially after 22 months.

Anyway, it's clear that you just want to complain and not actually do anything so we're done and you're back on ignore. If you're serious at all, you'll think about what I wrote about in this conversation.
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stop whining, Blizzard doesn't do anything? Why do you think classes get nerfed? They think that is what you idiots want. lol Because of the massive complaining on omg this clears faster then my prefered class, NERF IT into the ground. Get over yourselves. You have the Brawler. I'm sorry that isn't what kind of PVP you wanted, but it is PVP added to the game none the less. Go play a different game if you aren't happy. SHEESH. Post constructive feed back about the game, don't whine about how we don't have this and that. Say what they can improve on first, you know, PROPER FEEDBACK. Then maybe they will listen. Let's be honest here, would you listen to anything someone has to say if they spewed it out like most of the people here? Nope... i know i wouldn't.
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07/12/2014 02:26 PMPosted by Dispirit
you know why there were amazing? they had supported and competitive pvp. so yes....


They didn't really have any support at all. The only real PvP feature they had was that you could attack each other. That's as bare bones as it gets.
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"As we're counting down the days until we're ready to announce a release date for Diablo III, we've come to realize that the PvP game and systems aren't yet living up to our standards. Today, we wanted to let you know that we've made the difficult decision to hold back the PvP Arena system and release it in a patch following the game's launch. After a lot of consideration and discussion, we ultimately felt that delaying the whole game purely for PvP would just be punishing to everyone who's waiting to enjoy the campaign and core solo/co-op content, all of which is just about complete.

While we work on making sure PvP lives up to its full potential, we hope you'll find some consolation in the fact that soon, you'll be having a blast leveling characters, finding items, learning the classes, and perfecting builds…and that when the Arenas do arrive, you’ll be all the better prepared for battle.

When the PvP patch is ultimately ready, it will add multiple Arena maps with themed locations and layouts, PvP-centric achievements, and a matchmaking system that will help you and your team get into fairly matched games quickly and easily. We'll also be adding a personal progression system that will reward you for successfully bashing in the other team's skulls.

We know a lot of you are looking forward to PvP, and we’ll be focusing our post-launch efforts on making sure the Arenas are as brutal, bloody, fast-paced, and awesome as we know they can be. In the meantime, we're in the process of putting the finishing touches on what we think is a truly epic campaign and co-op experience for launch.

We'll have a lot more info to share on the PvP system in the future, and we look forward to the moment we can get the game into your hands
."

- as stated by D3's Lead Designer Jay Wilson regarding PvP the week before release. Any Diablo fans who pre-ordered were keeping up to date with the info, advertisement is not only TV commercials or a picture on a box. Most people nowadays order digital copies of online PC games, so the only real advertisement comes from the developer sites and updates they offer. D3 TV commercials were not even that common, their main advertisements came from multiple sources online, where actual gamers know how and where to find the info they need to make decisions on a game. Many forms of advertisement have been shown to have existed already in this thread, but this quote from the lead designer of D3 shows it was initially considered to be vital to the overall game design, considered important to many fans, and that PvP was meant to be a part of D3, as it always had been to the Diablo franchise. In D3, they wanted to make PvP into an improved, separate, controlled and supported system, better than what existed in D2, and that's what PvP gamers were looking forward to most, because they knew they would be able to compete in teams with their friends after working hard to build their unique characters and develop unique strategies.

If you really still want to deny all these things count as advertisement, you have no idea what marketing/advertisement actually are, look it up. It does not matter what form it was presented in, D3 PvP was advertised in many ways, and obviously most D3 players knew about it, and all those interested in PvP options in games were expecting it. Basically every single person I know who played D3 wanted to PvP in it in the arena system. Delay after delay, lie after lie, more of them would quit, saying they would come back when PvP was done. Brawling came out, we tried it, it was better than nothing, but overall terrible - literally one of the worst implementations of PvP in an online game ever made. It was also stated to basically be a band-aid fix, something to hold PvP fans over while they finish the actual Team Deathmatch PvP mode which would be supported by their team, and not just some bare bones Brawling zone to test your character out in. PvPers made the most of Brawling in D3 Vanilla, trying to make it as good as possible, and learning how to survive and adapt to the gross imbalances. Overall, it was fun for those who invested into that PvP scene, but obviously it fell way short of expectations, and overall was a terrible system that most players could not adapt to.

In ROS, Brawling is all but dead. The user interface makes it even more impossible to find Brawling games to join, Brawling is even more imbalanced and unplayable than ever due to inflated stats and even more imbalanced and overpowered item affixes and skill effects introduced, and as boring as ever having not a single meager update since it was first released. It's no wonder most Diablo fans quit and it's no wonder why Brawling is unpopular. Who wants to use something that is stale, was always terrible, and is not supported by those who created it, because it was never meant to be considered the games actual PvP system. These are the facts, stop being ignorant to them just because you were never interested in PvP or you are just not a serious gamer. Millions of other gamers out there who enjoy Blizzard games also enjoy various PvP aspects within each of them, PvP is what keeps Blizzard games popular long term for the most dedicated players. This is evident in all their games of the past decade. Players who focus on PvE only come and go, the fact is that content will always go stale eventually, unless they update it every couple months like they do in WoW. And even then, I'm pretty sure most PvE WoW players now are mostly new and were not hardcore players on the first day WoW actually came out. Those players got tired of the constant dumbing down of the game for casuals, just like most Diablo fans have gotten tired of it in D3, while not getting the vital improvements to the game it should have. PvP is one of those vital aspects meant to be an end-game option that should have existed long ago, but still has not even been mentioned in a year+.

PvP was promised and advertised, that's the bottom line, there is no denying it. Blizzard's last update states they scrapped Team Deathmatch because "it wasn't good enough" and they will continue to work on solving the problem of not having a valid PvP system. Brawling clearly was never meant to be an answer, for all those ignorant to the facts. What is completely hypocritical is that Blizzard says they did not release their Arena system because of quality, yet they release Brawling mode regardless of any care to quality, and after all this time have not been willing to even re-examine the game to address the lack of quality PvP allowed. Brawling could be made so much better in a variety of ways, just by adjusting a few things at a time and adding features which already exist in the code they used while developing the scrapped PvP systems. Their reasoning reeks of lies and fallacies.

PvP and PvE can be balanced separately as it was initially planned to be. It was done in D2 separately, and D3 was initially designed to allow development to tweak skills, stats, spells, and items for PvP if they felt it was needed, while not affecting their concepts of balance or what was enjoyable in the PvE environment. This was stated in multiple interviews, and even explained by Jay Wilson himself. It was also stated that if PvP in the form they advertised was not complete before the end of the year it was first released, it would be "a total disaster" by D3's Lead Designer. That it was, and that it still is, and until they fix PvP as promised, D3 always will be just that - a total disaster, an absolute failure.
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07/12/2014 03:00 PMPosted by UGotGanked
If you really still want to deny all these things count as advertisement, you have no idea what marketing/advertisement actually are, look it up.


Hundreds of pointless words that boil down to "But you promised." Not enough after two years. Just isn't. Stuff developers say on game forums doesn't constitute anything legal. I'm not disputing your point by the way. They did say all that.

It's as irrelevant now as a poltician's promise. You need more.
Edited by Eschaton#1854 on 7/12/2014 3:12 PM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
7805
07/12/2014 02:48 PMPosted by Eschaton
07/12/2014 02:43 PMPosted by Dispirit
the expansion sold 1/5th the copies of the original. know why?

Yeah, I do. Expansions never sell as many copies as the original game. Especially after 22 months.

Anyway, it's clear that you just want to complain and not actually do anything so we're done and you're back on ignore. If you're serious at all, you'll think about what I wrote about in this conversation.


hey guess what. if anything you wrote was serious, i'd surely think about it. Diablo is a pvp game though. Diablo 2 didn't last for years on it's super deep pve experience of endless baal/mephisto runs. the current developers just show how little they know when they pretend diablo is a pve game in interviews. that's why the game is failing. that's why they can't get anyone to buy their expansion.
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07/11/2014 01:24 PMPosted by WitchDoctor
Do you recall the origional diablo 3 game box?


http://www.leetgamesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Diablo-III-02.jpg

This box that I don't see a mention of PvP on?
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07/12/2014 03:09 PMPosted by Eschaton
Hundreds of pointless words that boil down to "But you promised." Not enough after two years. Just isn't. Stuff developers say on game forums doesn't constitute anything legal. I'm not disputing your point by the way. They did say all that.

It's as irrelevant now as a poltician's promise. You need more.


If you want to take legal action you need more.
But a company promoting its game as having arena PvP, the after selling 14 million copies saying, "You know what? The PvP isn't that fun so. Nevermind" - that is enough to complain, stomp your foot, whine and talk trash.
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07/12/2014 03:33 PMPosted by Goodbrew
But a company promoting its game as having arena PvP, the after selling 14 million copies saying, "You know what? The PvP isn't that fun so. Nevermind" - that is enough to complain, stomp your foot, whine and talk trash.

Of course. And I'm not disputing that they have a point. Or more correctly "did" have point. The point was more relevant at the time than now though. And because this much time has passed my only purpose in engaging at all with people that have been trolling this for a very long time now was to very sincerely advise them that if they wish to be successful in getting what they want they need to do more than keep repeating things like "D2 was awesome" (it was for a while), "The essence of the Diablo series is PVP" (tough case to make), and "You promised" (which isn't going to convince anyone now).

For one thing, they probably need to make Brawling work at some level. Having the players abandon it for whatever reason (apparently mostly because it wasn't what was originally promised) isn't telling Blizzard anything other than true interest in PVP is very low. OK, then it's not worth doing. I don't know that Blizzard thinks that or not but comparing words to actions suggests that it's purely fan service when they mention it at all.

If people want to move it beyond that it's up to them. Generating some actual in-game killing of one another in Brawling, starting some communities or clans around it, and getting some attention for that is about the only measure that matters now.
Edited by Eschaton#1854 on 7/12/2014 4:18 PM PDT
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+1

but they will never add it.

Wont buy any more diablo products until they do.
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+1
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07/12/2014 02:26 PMPosted by Dispirit
you know why there were amazing? they had supported and competitive pvp. so yes....


that had no such thing....they had the equivalent of brawling anywhere and thats it.
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@ganked and the op,

as you can see what is left of the diablo playerbase does not even understand what you mean when you say diablo pvp. They have no way of knowing as they were never able to experience competitive pvp in d2. While we were dueling, making 4v4gm and fpk games, climbing class and overall pvp ladders on jsp, trading for every extra sliver of hp and dmg for our godly characters,

they were lvl 30 with 5 pts in every skill, wondering what in the world just happened as a lvl 90 hdin just joined their public magic find game and slaughtered them repeatedly, most likely taking all of their gold.

Jay knew about us. He acknowledged the big d2 dueling community and was designing team deathmatch just for us. But there was a problem. He made the game too hard for the casual. He made inferno too difficult and punishing for a casual gamer. He made legendary and set stats too low to allow facerolling content. He made drop rates too low to gear out a character in 1week to 1 month. He made trading and auction house knowledge too important for the casual gamer.

At a critical moment in d3 history, jay or whatever the one guys name that said he made jay do stupid stuff, decided it was the casuals that they must protect and cater to. The game was redesigned post launch to remove any barrier between a casual gamer and reaching end game. In the process the pvp development stopped. After all why on earth would any casual want to fight against another player. Jay quit after that, likely disgusted by the games player base, and so did everybody who was not a casual diablo player. A few stick around because they hope one day pvp will be released and want to have an edge over other players who return. I was that for a while but it is just not worth it any more.

This is the game that the current playerbase wanted which was about 1/5th of the people who bought diablo 3. It was redesigned post launch for them and if blizz ever says the word pvp in an official post or patch note every one of these players will quit the game and go back to wow because of their bad memories of that hdin wrecking them in a public magic find game.

Not only do you need to find a different game for pvp, you need to find a a different company and playerbase. The casuals here reign supreme and pvp does not mix with casuals.
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I simply still can't understand why Blizzard can get away with this PVP lie.

I don't know, different culture? I would be very ashamed if I can't stay true of my own words.

1.1 was long ago - the said patch for PVP. Now like what, 2.1 soon? How come?

If Blizzard employees aren't capable to make PVP, hire a new one, from ground-up. They have the capitals to hire the best people around the world.

Once a trust broken, it's hard to regain it back. This is true for PVP promise.
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