Diablo® III

The Monk Community Needs a Cure

I like how we all suddenly feel the devs understand our pulse/pain/up after one blue post alluding to some major buffs. If it turns out our generators speed is buffed 20%, and LKT & WOL is buffed 25% damage, is that suddenly enough? I guess we'll have to wait!

If they do triple LTK damage and double generator speed, I will become a ranged monk raining Hnd of Ytars like a DH!
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My thoughts on the matter have very little to do with the devs and everything to do with this community. Of course people have reason to be upset. Probably isn't a good idea to continue to build only a negative connection to this forum however. Eventually that drives more and more people away barring those who are negative by nature.

I play games and come here to have fun. I would assume that is what most others come here for as well. We shouldn't forget that!
Edited by Fitz#1329 on 8/1/2014 4:54 AM PDT
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I think it's more like people that are driven away are negative, than people that are negative driving others away. There's a difference.

Anyway, patch here yet? Soooo quiet.
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I don't understand that Flimsy. Can you explain?

Btw, in case you weren't around at the time, although you may have been and thus will remember, there was a time when the game got stale for a long, long period of time and this place was still packed with people enjoying themselves.

Then the negative assault came in a different way and the first mass exodus occurred. We just witnessed the second. This went from one of the most active and tightest knit places on bnet to a ghost town.

That is my concern.
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@Fitz

I mean if the monk class is at a good standing to start with, then there won't be this much negativity in th forum. Not sure which stale period you mean, 1.0.6 or 1.0.8? If you are referring to then it's quite different to now though. Monk was quite strong despite not being the strongest. The class then also fits its philosophy pretty well.

What happened since RoS to monks are just nerfs with no substantial replacement till now. Among things that are taken away from monks are

- Attack speed of FoT
- Nirvana (fix or nerf up to you)
- Wave of Light was powerful
- Sweeping Wind was powerful
- Synergies of the above
- EP wasn't mandatory even without nerfing it like now, though i agree this is justified in the face of GR.

Actually these nerfs wont be so bad if we are on par with other classes or given reasonable replacement. So looking at these series of negative events, it's hard not to be negative about them. That's why I said people that are driven away are negative as a result of negative changes, rather than these people that are driving other players away.

Take myself as example. Though i have been around for a long time i never bother commenting (or even reading much) forums. I started to express my opinions as there needs to changes very soon because things appear to be worst than ever. That might be very well the reason why the forum was quite positive in that stale period you refer to - I don't remember ever having the need to come out here to show i am unhappy =p

Anyway, looking forward to new patch. It's understandable that there will be more changes after next, but this next patch is very critical for our morale. All the best for us.

P.s Can't really remember how we were except 1.0.8 - things are very diff in RoS. Anyone can remind me which 1.0.x monks were pretty bad?
Edited by Flimsy#6693 on 8/1/2014 5:38 AM PDT
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Oh I understand now. Yes I agree the relative class strength drove much of the negativity. I am just worried that it has gone too far.

As a side discussion, monks were pretty much always crap except when we abused SW snapshot.
WDs, Barbs, and Archon wizards all were putting out much more dps than monks. I guess at least we beat out DHs. There was a singular difference though, which was game difficulty.

Now that the game is harder again, the imbalance is right in our face. When it is Barbs can clear in 6 minutes and monks in 7, noone seems to mind much. When it is WDs can clear T6 in 6 minutes and monks just die constantly, it sucks.

Another by product of the now unbeatable difficulty is going to be 0 class diversity unless Blizzard is really, really in this for the long haul with a lot of resources to keep tweaking and changing gear and skills.
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Yea. Barbs, WD and Archon Wiz did much better in DPS and i didnt have any problems with that (i do have a gg barb then). It was just fun. You proly explained very well why - no one would care much about 1min difference in clearing but when you keep dying and take many more times effort (relatively speaking) it's a completely different story.

Balancing classes in the face of GR is def much harder given the number of layers regarding difficulty scaling.
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I remember 1.08 well, with experience in HC only:

- Bats WD did triple damage of the next best class. Due to lifesteal also MP10 capable.
- Barbs were tough bastards with lowish DPS
- Archon not viable past MP5, CM was all the rage.
- DH was underpowered as hell, only a few could do anything above MP5.
- Monks were a decent balance between DPS and toughness.

I had a dual life steal monk with approx. 130k DPS, running MP10 (and not just crypts) with usually 2 WD's and as 4th another WD or CM wizz or HOTA barb.

zDPS was already a rage back then, but I refused to go that way. Could do the pull game just as well while contributing say 10% to total group DPS, while also able to run MP8 solo. I remember often saving WD's arses with Serenity Tranquility, really miss that as a party skill. Actually, I find it extremely hard to pay attention to fellow party members with the screen clutter in RoS :( Playing a high difficulty with a good group and team play is a fantastic experience.

Solo, you had some of the more crazy monks even running MP10 with Bells (Silvonte & KK), but I'm too fainthearted for that :D I did try a lot of builds, cookie cutter / tri-gen / dual-gen / bells etc. Out of all that testing and experimenting I drew a very simple conclusion: they were all equally viable builds! If we can achieve this diversity in RoS I'd be really happy.
Nirvana never got on in HC btw, too fiddly and risky to get right 100% of the time. EP got some hesitant use in HC, but most didn't dare to use it above MP8 for fear of reflects...

All in all, 1.08 had decent balance with only WD's overpowered and DH's a bit underpowered. It is more than clear Monk got a very short straw with RoS and it's about time it is corrected. Still, weak or not, monk for life!
Edited by Hippotion#2165 on 8/1/2014 7:43 AM PDT
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07/30/2014 02:24 PMPosted by Fitz


Let's get back to having some fun around here!


As soon as 2.1 goes live if it all goes well I fully intend to start having fun playing my monk...till then...well at least I'm enjoying crusader.
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The Monk Community Needs a Cure


More cowbell?
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@Hiipotion

Thanks for the HC pov. I actually ran Nirvana in HC a bit on MP7-10. It was dangreous but very exciting, largely in part to how dangerous it was, lol.

1.0.8 SC (when crypts became the only thing to do)

1. WDs ruled dps.
2. Archon Wiz next
3. Rend Barbs next
4. Bell monks
5. DHs (unless Nyan or some of the other top tier gear swap/snapshot guys were around)

Of course, Bell monks were NEVER welcome in a group because of WD static AoE, so monks HAD to play ZDS or you would never compete at the highest levels.

There was a distinct lack of balance IMO and the only reason there even appeared a semblance of balance was simply because the difficulty was tuned so low. As evidence, pit all classes versus each other in T3/T4 on live and what does it seem like? Seems like monks are just fine and one of the fastest clearing classes, doesn't it?

That is not to say it isn't a problem, because it most certainly is. I just think the problem was always there, but tuning the difficulty up made it very apparent.

Anyway, love the discussion!

EDIT: Found and old video running MP8 with datnoob Jco and some others. Ah, the memories. I loved that build so much. It was so damn fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8yaP3MZO04
Edited by Fitz#1329 on 8/1/2014 8:20 AM PDT
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There's no escape for you Kim!

(>Q_Q)> (KIM) <(Q_Q<)


v(*-*)v
(>*-*)> KIM <(*-*<)
           ^(*-*)^

RIP Kim :)


~~(ㅡ_ㅡ )~~
~~( ㅡ_ㅡ)~~~
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07/30/2014 02:35 PMPosted by Shifty76
The prescription is...more bell!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnM9g7UdjME


Pants: Gold Plated Diapers

*+35% Extra Gold From Monsters
*Wave of Light now drops cow bells.
*Take 80% less damage from Reapers.
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Fitz was this you?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N24_dCWCLrw#

Can't see it that well :/
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I is BUFFBOT!

Yep, I remember that too! I haven't seen Ryoka in forever I think...

Also, when Nyan BoG?

NOOB!
Edited by Fitz#1329 on 8/1/2014 11:58 AM PDT
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Support Forum Agent
Posts: 856
I’m digging on the thread. We are very much keeping our eyes out for constructive feedback, and we'll continue to do the best we can to share any insights with you as we are able.

07/31/2014 09:35 AMPosted by Druin
tl;dr -- While I normally do not support negativity, sometimes it is the right form of expression to get the job done.


Negative feedback can often be shared in a manner that is devoid of civil and constructive discussion, which can give it a bad rap. There's nothing wrong with negative feedback in our opinion, though, and we definitely don't take the constructive criticisms we receive for granted. Your feedback has always been laid clear Druin, and for that we are especially appreciative.
Edited by Lylirra on 8/1/2014 4:35 PM PDT
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08/01/2014 12:54 PMPosted by Araxom
I’m digging on the thread. We are very much keeping our eyes out for constructive feedback, and we’ll continue to do the best we can to share any insights with you as we are able.

07/31/2014 09:35 AMPosted by Druin
tl;dr -- While I normally do not support negativity, sometimes it is the right form of expression to get the job done.


There’s nothing wrong with negative feedback, and we definitely don’t take the constructive criticisms we received for granted. Unfortunately, negative feedback can often be shared in a manner that is devoid of civil and constructive discussion, which can give it a bad rap. With that said, your feedback has always been laid clear Druin, and for that we are especially appreciative.


Everyone loves Druin.
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MVP - Diablo III (Monk)
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08/01/2014 12:54 PMPosted by Araxom
There’s nothing wrong with negative feedback, and we definitely don’t take the constructive criticisms we received for granted. Unfortunately, negative feedback can often be shared in a manner that is devoid of civil and constructive discussion, which can give it a bad rap. With that said, your feedback has always been laid clear Druin, and for that we are especially appreciative.

Why thank you Araxom!

I completely agree that negativity needs to be phrased constructively to be effective. That being said, even a great outcry of simple QQ can be helpful if only to understand the level of emotional distress a community is in.

Thanks for the feedback, I know our little Monk community always goes nuts when we get blue-attention! :D
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"Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing at all" ~ HK
Druin, the happy monk
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Of course, Bell monks were NEVER welcome in a group because of WD static AoE, so monks HAD to play ZDS or you would never compete at the highest levels.

EDIT: Found and old video running MP8 with datnoob Jco and some others. Ah, the memories. I loved that build so much. It was so damn fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8yaP3MZO04

Well, I just played FoT Quickening + SW facetanking, while spamming Overawe and Cyclone Strike. I could held my own quite well vs. HOTA / Rend barbs eDPS wise, while keeping up 48% overawe all the time for the group. It was very difficult to pull off a decent DPS monk (at least in HC), that might have been the reason a lot of (new) monks went 'cheesy' zDPS.

Very interesting note on the difficulty ceiling, it did take quite a while before MP10 was conquered. I do remember being really quick in MP5 solo vs. a WD for example, but the lack of bats DPS started to hurt badly in high MP's.

Regarding Nirvana, I've watched that vid back in the day, AFAIK you were the only monk ever to run Nirvana in HC! Don't tell JCO, but in my D3 starting days I used to check his Finite monk gear regularly to see if I could copy some ideas :)

Also nice MP10 ubers vid, I never did manage to do that in HC, got scared after Skellie procced my monk on MP9 :( You are one of the very few to have made nice HC monks while playing SC mostly. Too bad you weren't that great at ALT-TABing ^^

@Araxom: we trust in you to restore the balance of the Gods in all that is monk!
@Druin: Maybe you should run for president, you'd make a fine politican :)
Edited by Hippotion#2165 on 8/1/2014 1:33 PM PDT
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08/01/2014 01:27 PMPosted by Hippotion
@Druin: Maybe you should run for president, you'd make a fine politican :)

Perhaps someday! :D

President would be awful but public office is not out of the question.
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"Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing at all" ~ HK
Druin, the happy monk
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