Diablo® III

[Review] - Datamined info PTR 3

08/05/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Druin
Transcendence Every point of Spirit spent heals you for 1568 Life. (up from 248) / Heal amount is increased by 2% of your Health Globe Healing Bonus. (up from 0.2%)

This is probably the biggest change this patch.

This passive likely fixes every non-storm-breaker monk's sustain issues. Say goodby to any thought of LoH or LPS, even a modest 60k globes gives you a whopping 138,400 life every time you activate a mantra.

While this will be manditory for nearly everyone, I think it's a wonderful change. Sustain in melee was pretty much impossible and this hard-requires you to actually interact with your resource to gain its benefit.

This is obviously the biggest buff for SWK 4pc monks who have seen nothing but buffs from every PTR build and might now be the best possible setup.

This is the biggest buff this patch even if they increased our gen APS by 50% or more and it's nice to see.


This is a nice buff but SWK 4pc, though the only valid build for SWK was the madstone+SSS which is now nerfed. It does not spawn extra clones now on SSS.

It seems to me that fire will be king now right behind ping pong monk
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i did a quick test with wothf and its about 15% faster

sweet buff!!!!!!!
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08/05/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Druin
It seems like Diablo 3 is simply drifting away from a gen->spend system and these patch notes reflect that movement. The developers seem reluctant to the point of being obstinate when it comes to spender / generator damage buffs and this means they have no way of competing with the extremely powerful class-sets / god-tier legendary items.

I understand why this is happening but I think it's toxic for the game. This mentality slowly but inevitably removes skills from the available pool by over-promoting those that work with the high-power items.


This is the most important aspect to me (putting aside the fact that Monks have been horrible compared to the other classes since RoS.) If all the tuning is happening based on legendary items that the top tier players have, where does that leave everyone that doesn't possess those items? Certainly, you want something to drive people to continue to play, so if you don't have top tier gear (as my Monk does not), you continue to grind to find it. However, given that I play all six classes, I'm much more likely to play another one that actually makes higher level play enjoyable, rather than struggling with a Monk that will be great (maybe) when I finally land a complete Inna's or something similar. What it says to me is that the class is still fundamentally flawed (Why are there still runes focused around the RNG of Dodge when they've finally acknowledged that said RNG is one of the primary things holding the class back?) and the devs are still kind of flailing around trying to find ways to fix it.

Furthermore, as you noted, we're going from one set of mandatory passives to yet another set. How does that promote build diversity if Transcendence becomes the replacement for OWE as the only method by which Monks can actually survive higher Torment levels? How does it promote build diversity if we're now encouraged to spend Spirit as quickly as possible but the spenders themselves are still completely subpar compared to other classes? It feels like there's still a significant miscommunication between what's happening in game and what's happening in the studio.
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08/05/2014 06:46 PMPosted by Koolkal
i did a quick test with wothf and its about 15% faster

sweet buff!!!!!!!


Awesome and all we had to do was lost 20+% of damage for a 15% attack speed increase .... not sure but let me do the math on that .... aaannnd its a nerf
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I think I'm fooled by the blue post again when I saw the data.
Esp the DS and LTK nerf. (Blue even fooled us that LTK would be buffed.)

will still test it and see how it goes, but I am surely not as excited as yesterday.

Anyway, what changes to spender is really #!@#$%, it's elementary math.
Why bother bringing a spender while we have mantra to heal, right?
Edited by Matt#3930 on 8/5/2014 8:47 PM PDT
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08/05/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Druin
It seems like Diablo 3 is simply drifting away from a gen->spend system and these patch notes reflect that movement.


I'm not so sure about this at all.

Having a hard time trying to get enough Spirit Regen to keep LTK'ing with Crimsom set+ Paragon RCR and Cindercoat.
Seems the cost increase pretty much makes it impossible to unleash the nonstop kicking like we do on live. Epiphany doesn't save the issues either: I need to pick between the survability Rune (Desert Shroud) and run out of spirit or use the new one (Inspiration) and get oneshotted on a bigger mob.
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I ran out a ton also. Really made me mad.
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With each patch note/changes for monk, I feel I see a friggin trollface at the end.
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08/05/2014 06:41 PMPosted by Testsubject
08/05/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Druin
Probably non-viable vs other weapons if SW doesn't proc AD (which I have been assured it does not) and will see little to no use.

Still 5000000000% better than the gloves


The did not change this to a weapon in game. It is still on the gloves. So glove now give the stacks to SW


This is the only good news in the patch.
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I like the change to LTK and GNK (now rolls 500~700% fireball) combo (higher dmg output + AoE + DoT). Increased spirit cost combined with Transcendence and Health Globes stacked by me already is a great boost to survivability. Gave up on LoH 'coz I sustain much better when using Spirit.

About Taeguk - it's the same as before, but worse. Upgrading still increases the stack count (unfortunately...). You'll now have to go crazy with spenders to get any good boost to dmg (0.5%/stack, refreshes everything after using spender), so what Druin assumed in first post is incorrect :(

[Edit] Anyone care to explain this to me: http://imgur.com/Bno2usG
Will I get healed by Lightning now after surpassing the 100% or are those counted somehow separately? O_O
Edited by Morindal#2760 on 8/6/2014 12:38 AM PDT
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<span class="truncated">...</span>

The did not change this to a weapon in game. It is still on the gloves. So glove now give the stacks to SW


This is the only good news in the patch.


notsureifserious.gif

Gloves, along with head are the two absolute worst slots they could tie our legendary to. It directly interferes with both our sets and fire builds! Could not have failed harder it they tried here haha.
Edited by R3W1ND#2713 on 8/6/2014 12:34 AM PDT
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Wondering if i'm the only one who is expecting(okay more like hoping) that one of the last patches of the ptr they go like: "Hah! We were only kidding you monks! Here take some damage buffs!" and just go ahead and double/triple the damage on our abilities? :P

...ah well i can dream...
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The new change to tankiness and healing are pretty good. I took my monk that was barely T3 worthy on live, because of her squishiness, and managed to solo a T6 rift with her. I did die a few times but that was when Desert Shroud was on cd. With Desert Shroud on, I could stand in arcane beams, frozen pulses, etc and not give a single !@#$. I went for a tanky build with the new 6th sense, guardians path, and the dodge rune of mantra of salvation. Together they give 57% dodge chance, and 25% non-physical reduction. Since pretty much all source of physical damage can be dodged, this set up ended up being pretty good. The RG I faced was the mallet lord guy, he did give me some trouble. He takes 90% of my hp with one hit, without desert shroud, so when the dodge dice did not roll in my favor, I get killed pretty easily. Just goes to show that dodge is not something you want to rely on, but rather it should be a bonus stat when your essential bases are covered. Thankfully the healing from transcendence was great, 3 LTK and I'm fully healed.

However DPS was still pretty lackluster. I ran a fire LTK monk, using a generator to get spirit instead of stacking CDR and use epiphany. While single target damage was ok, as I was able to easily dispatch a goblin, the AoE damage was lacking. Elite fights often last several times as long because I can't hit all of them at the same time. The increased spirit cost of LTK really shows here, as I had to spend a lot of time wailing on mobs with spenders just to build up the spirit to use LTK. While the AS buff to spender did give them a fast and furious feel, they simply don't do enough damage. Maybe when I get my hands on a pair of the new depth diggers it will help a bit, but even then they would still be too weak imo.
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08/06/2014 03:07 AMPosted by CtrlAltD1337
The new change to tankiness and healing are pretty good. I took my monk that was barely T3 worthy on live, because of her squishiness, and managed to solo a T6 rift with her. I did die a few times but that was when Desert Shroud was on cd. With Desert Shroud on, I could stand in arcane beams, frozen pulses, etc and not give a single !@#$. I went for a tanky build with the new 6th sense, guardians path, and the dodge rune of mantra of salvation. Together they give 57% dodge chance, and 25% non-physical reduction. Since pretty much all source of physical damage can be dodged, this set up ended up being pretty good. The RG I faced was the mallet lord guy, he did give me some trouble. He takes 90% of my hp with one hit, without desert shroud, so when the dodge dice did not roll in my favor, I get killed pretty easily. Just goes to show that dodge is not something you want to rely on, but rather it should be a bonus stat when your essential bases are covered. Thankfully the healing from transcendence was great, 3 LTK and I'm fully healed.

However DPS was still pretty lackluster. I ran a fire LTK monk, using a generator to get spirit instead of stacking CDR and use epiphany. While single target damage was ok, as I was able to easily dispatch a goblin, the AoE damage was lacking. Elite fights often last several times as long because I can't hit all of them at the same time. The increased spirit cost of LTK really shows here, as I had to spend a lot of time wailing on mobs with spenders just to build up the spirit to use LTK. While the AS buff to spender did give them a fast and furious feel, they simply don't do enough damage. Maybe when I get my hands on a pair of the new depth diggers it will help a bit, but even then they would still be too weak imo.


Nice to see that you could observe similar things like I could.
I personally tried similar defensive setup and my T4 monk could tank T6 unless I encountered very much CC.
My offensive is based off item procs and therefore a lot stronger than your setup. It seems proc coefficients have been left untouched therefore more AS results in more of the now buffed Odyns Son and Thunderfury procs.
However I can imagine some very effective fire builds with perma Epipahany LTK and
Gyana Na Kashu

Fireball weapon damage increased from 300-400% to 525-700%


Or some great holy builds with Sunwukos and this new thingy
Incense Torch of the Grand Temple

Has been redesigned
Reduces the Spirit cost of Wave of Light by 60%-80%
Now rolls +25-30% Wave of Light damage as a fifth primary affix

With buffed 2H weapons this may become viable. The 80% roll would grant WoL 15 spirit cost !!!
Thats perma WoLing

The changes to items and spells are quite huge... not directly in power but maybe in possibilities.
Its a huge effort to test stuff like that because you need completely new equipment.

edit: some more interesting stuff.
Heart Slaughter

Now rolls with +25-30% Physical damage

I doubt that monks can run a good physical build, however this 2H weapon can roll an additional 90% CHD. 2H buffs and nearly as much CHD as 2 emeralds can be HUGE on Sunwukos.
I got a feeling Sunwukos will be the monks strongest set from now on.

All the skill and item changes make cold builds very interesting. I actually prefer the new Rhimeheart because it can proc on elites, and helps to proc the new 6k% weapon damage proc of EP.

*sigh*
If I had only the equipment for builds like that.

One is for sure, I will play a new seasonal Monk if he wont receive any nerfs (e.g. proc coefficients)
Edited by ThanatosVI#2639 on 8/6/2014 5:11 AM PDT
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So druin, what do you think of the changes so far? I went into PTR to test a few auto attacks using OS + SoH. I attack faster but it's laughable to think that this puts us on par with any other class.
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08/06/2014 07:11 AMPosted by Byakuren
So druin, what do you think of the changes so far? I went into PTR to test a few auto attacks using OS + SoH. I attack faster but it's laughable to think that this puts us on par with any other class.
Lots of people expect the same efficiency of pure gen builds as monks had in 1.08. It just ain't gonna happen if you ask me.

Better to test SWK and Raiment builds and see how that feels, those will be end-game builds as Blizzard intends them to be. Who wants to be a proc machine anyway?

If you're going down that route, might as well try dual-gen or tri-gen.
Edited by Hippotion#2165 on 8/6/2014 7:17 AM PDT
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...

This is the only good news in the patch.


notsureifserious.gif

Gloves, along with head are the two absolute worst slots they could tie our legendary to. It directly interferes with both our sets and fire builds! Could not have failed harder it they tried here haha.


If you honestly think taking up a weapon slot was better, you haven't played monk in RoS. Legendary weapon procs are one of the biggest boons of all classes, including melee - including monk. Fire is pretty much dead and RorG solves some issues with the sets.

Yeah, I'd rather it be a shoulder or something, but the fact remains that glove is a lot better than weapon.
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08/06/2014 12:25 AMPosted by Morindal
[Edit] Anyone care to explain this to me: http://imgur.com/Bno2usG
Will I get healed by Lightning now after surpassing the 100% or are those counted somehow separately? O_O


I might have a little insight on this tooltip. I play barb with the skill relentless and it has a similar tooltip. If you hover over like lightning resist it will say 80% + 50%. It just means after the 80% is applied, another 50% is applied after that. So your lightning resist would actually be 90%. You will also see the same +50% tooltip when you activate epiphany - desert shroud.

Now, why did they add the 50% or 25% from sixth sense into the tooltip like that? I think it is because there are some skills that add forms of damage reduction that aren't reflected in your toughness stat. For barbarians if you choose the skill superstition which is similar to sixth sense, it does not update your toughness stat and it also doesn't show up on your resists. It's a form of damage reduction that works in the background like elite damage reduction that leaves your toughness the same. There are also other skills and items that don't benefit your toughness such as ignore pain and I think double unity.

I think they chose to add the damage reduction this way because of pets. For barbs, COTA snapshot or dynamically adjust their hp/mitigation based on your toughness stat. I am just spitballing, but I don't think they benefit mitigation wise from things like ignore pain or elite damage reduction that aren't a part of your toughness stat. So this also applies to mystic ally.

Now why didn't Blizzard just bump up your resists by 25%?

I think because let's say your lightning resist is 1000. This is about 74.5% reduced damage. If they bump lightning resist to 1250, then you get 78.15% reduced damage. The 25% reduced damage applied after your resists will actually get you 80.875% reduced damage. It's actually stronger this way and I think if they just changed your actual resist numbers it might seem absurd especially at high resist levels. Say you have 1500+ all resists; the amount of resists this passive would have to add would be really large numbers and maybe aesthetically it's better for you to have a 80% + 25% then 2500 resists inflated by one passive.
Edited by Koxinga#1737 on 8/6/2014 7:53 AM PDT
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08/06/2014 07:16 AMPosted by Hippotion
08/06/2014 07:11 AMPosted by Byakuren
So druin, what do you think of the changes so far? I went into PTR to test a few auto attacks using OS + SoH. I attack faster but it's laughable to think that this puts us on par with any other class.
Lots of people expect the same efficiency of pure gen builds as monks had in 1.08. It just ain't gonna happen if you ask me.

Better to test SWK and Raiment builds and see how that feels, those will be end-game builds as Blizzard intends them to be. Who wants to be a proc machine anyway?

If you're going down that route, might as well try dual-gen or tri-gen.


the only build I haven't tried is SWK, mainly because I'm too lazy to pull the items from my mules. Regardless my rainment efficiency is still the same as before. Only now I have a useful healing spell in the form of mantras. I could already clear T6 on live. The changes haven't really helped me at all.
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08/06/2014 02:42 AMPosted by Huangar
and just go ahead and double/triple the damage on our abilities?


No I lost hope on reasonable things happening to this class a while ago.. but I at least figured an overall top damage build improvement not something that blends the builds together into crap..

Dear Don Vu,

Why do you still have a job?

How do you not realize that the class you're the head programmer for is about 1/3rd the next best class in Damage Output.

Doubling or Tripling our damage output ( what it is in the end obviously with math working like math and all if you doubled damage you'd get a lot more than triple the output.. ) figure it out.. If you cant I assure you many that post in this forum can.

Blizzard,

Should you really be unloading on monk class with Console RoS about to drop and now in Pre-Orders? You may want to consider removing the class from the Console version of the game. I cannot understand how you cant see that this isn't a skill or gear thing and even if we still had Exploding Palm (Live Version) we wouldn't do enough damage, it would however give anyone a reason to group with us. Which is something I can't really think of myself at the moment. Defense was a problem but offense is necessary.

As I was saying on my post..

the people in the Legit Rifters community wont even team with a DPS monk.
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