Diablo® III

It's terrible... newest PTR ( and why )

I hear a lot of people saying how great we are doing.. Okay Yes on Healing (this will be nerfed) and on defense.

Check it.. WE COULD BE INVULNERABLE and we would still suck. Are we close to invulnerable no.
But in the version previous to this I was on 31 rift.. and I lost because I couldn't kill quick enough, I didn't die the entire time.

Note:

Our highest damage build which was not half of what it should be in damage ( 1000 Rainments )
there was a 2 second addition to the cooldown of Dashing Strike. So regardless of any other change unless somehow you can do as much damage as 1000 Rainments our damage went down. Jawbreaker is extremely clunky and if you play it enough you notice certain instances where it seems like its not stopping the charge from being taken or not proc'ing.

Some of the other builds do more damage now and that's cool but that still means overall the best damage one is still even further behind than it was before.

LTK moved up to 166% of its cost originally for like a 15% damage up. Do the Math people.

Furnace and Rimeheart are both nerfed but the timer stops at the Rift Guardian.

Serenity Unwelcome Disturbance doesn't do damage and it doesn't stop damage. (figure this is a bug obviously)

Blizz needs to double the damage on all of our skills to start. I am not exactly a lightweight when it comes to monk and I feel like there will be enough t3-t4 players telling Blizzard that we're doing great because they can now do t6 when they couldn't before that Blizz wont get the message.

What youre not realizing is that doing t6 and taking 25 minutes is way too long for someone who has had multiples of every monk item drop. It should be 10 mins and it should be beneficial to group.

On live I dashing Strike for over 200m when harrington is proc'd. This is a very low damage for the mechanics and how often it can be used. I have over 3000 hours on monk and 70 hours on Crusader if that. My Crusader hits for 200m 66m x 3 beams, and quickly over and over, he also pretty much can't die.

For any old monks and really good monks this change should not feel welcome.. T6 is slow and boring and not hard.. There is no doubt the defense is better, but that's not what anyone was asking for.

HERES WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN

SIXTH SENSE SHOULD NOT BE A PASSIVE ( IT SHOULD BE AN ATTRIBUTE OF JUST BEING A MONK ) It's just another reason my damage wasn't as good as it was before.

Buff ALL skills when you buff one.. It's so annoying to have blizzard give a class one viable build and then claim build diversity. This Rainments build is terribly aggrevating and they just made it worse. SWK + INNAs for ex.. It's okay but were still seeing 8 digit numbers where 9 digit numbers should be.

I am goin to write a new thread to touch on this subject specifically but I have an idea why we may not be doing as much damage as we should be

CLASS SET BONUS % DAM TO SKILL

Demon Hunter Marauders Sentry, Multishot, CArrow (any spender) has an affect on set
Crusader Akkhans Shotgun (% Heaven's Fury) affects, DarkL (%FoHeavens) aff
Barbarian Earthquake Earthquake % Damage affects the procs on this.
Witch Doctor Jade Jade receives bonus from Haunt %, Searing locust etc.
Witch Doctor Zuni Pet Build receives Damage boost from any pet spell %.
Wizard Tal Rasha's NOPE AFIAK meteor % does not help meteors

Monk 1000 Rainments Dashing Strike doesnt affect proc, No spells affect any SWK set either.

There's no synergy for monks.. We have Exp Palm Taken away remember that first. What will make up for that damage because we aren't good enough with it and now its gone.
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FYI: just confirmed Timer does NOT stop at RG.

Once RG shows up, times bar disappears, but timer is still running.

I just failed a G 28 rift showing -1 min 28 sec, even though the RG showed up before 15 minutes timer ran out.
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08/05/2014 11:13 PMPosted by Darth
LTK moved up to 166% of its cost originally for like a 15% damage up. Do the Math people.

A note on that; maximum spirit was also increased from 150 to 250. With a 150 spirit pool, you could do 5 Lashing Tail Kicks for a cost of 30 spirit each, before running out of spirit. With a 250 spirit pool, you can do 5 Lashing Tail Kicks for a cost of 50 spirit each, before running out of spirit. That's a status quo, not a nerf, but you get about 15% extra damage. Filling up a full spirit pool should take about the same time as before, since they've also increased the spirit generator numbers, so overall it's a buff. If I'm wrong then please, YOU do that math. ;)

Having said that, I'm still somewhat underwhelmed reading the new PTR patch notes. The blue post last week talking about the incoming buffs seemed to promise more.
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08/05/2014 11:48 PMPosted by Cartman1337
08/05/2014 11:13 PMPosted by Darth
LTK moved up to 166% of its cost originally for like a 15% damage up. Do the Math people.

A note on that; maximum spirit was also increased from 150 to 250. With a 150 spirit pool, you could do 5 Lashing Tail Kicks for a cost of 30 spirit each, before running out of spirit. With a 250 spirit pool, you can do 5 Lashing Tail Kicks for a cost of 50 spirit each, before running out of spirit. That's a status quo, not a nerf, but you get about 15% extra damage. Filling up a full spirit pool should take about the same time as before, since they've also increased the spirit generator numbers, so overall it's a buff. If I'm wrong then please, YOU do that math. ;)


That's good math! However, I'd argue that 15% is nowhere near enough to be an effective buff.
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08/06/2014 12:03 AMPosted by Lightdemon
I'd argue that 15% is nowhere near enough to be an effective buff.


You might tickle the RG with a 15% damage buffs...
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GNK now has a range of 500~700% per fireball so that's an average 100% boost to the additional dmg of LTK. Also remember LTK: Vulture Claw is now a real AoE (10 yards radius, the same as Sweeping Wind of fiah) with additional (stacking?) DoT as an icing on the cake. I'll prolly have to farm a new GNK (test server rolled me in the lower bounds - 550% dmg) but guess it's a win
Edited by Morindal#2760 on 8/6/2014 12:22 AM PDT
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08/05/2014 11:13 PMPosted by Darth
Blizz needs to double the damage on all of our skills to start.


Ive been saying this from the beginning of this expansion... seriously. They just need to pull a Jay wilson and 'double it'. DHs have Cluster Arrow: Loaded for Bear which outright (with no items to modify it's damage) does TWICE the damage of LTK for now 10 LESS resource cost. Both abilities being basically infinitely spammable when you gear around them

It used to deal basically three times the damage of LTK for 10 MORE resource cost, but it doesn't matter. The fact is.. even WITH Cluster Arrow type damage on LTK it still wouldn't make LTK viable. Do you see DHs running Cluster Arrow centric builds (Not M6 builds) in GRs? No. You don't. Why? Because they aren't viable because the damage isn't high enough and the damage GR monsters deal is absolutely ridiculous. It's all M6, all the way.

You could outright double the damage on every single one of our abilities.. and I doubt we'd as a class pull up above GR 38.. much less actually reach GR 40 by the time the ranged classes are at GR 50.

It's too late tonight.. but tomorrow.. definitely posting a constructively critical rant on why these developers just don't 'get it' and what they should be doing instead of what they keep doing... which is apparently just to maintain the status quo.
Edited by Fahita#1469 on 8/6/2014 12:30 AM PDT
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08/05/2014 11:48 PMPosted by Cartman1337
08/05/2014 11:13 PMPosted by Darth
LTK moved up to 166% of its cost originally for like a 15% damage up. Do the Math people.

A note on that; maximum spirit was also increased from 150 to 250. With a 150 spirit pool, you could do 5 Lashing Tail Kicks for a cost of 30 spirit each, before running out of spirit. With a 250 spirit pool, you can do 5 Lashing Tail Kicks for a cost of 50 spirit each, before running out of spirit. That's a status quo, not a nerf, but you get about 15% extra damage. Filling up a full spirit pool should take about the same time as before, since they've also increased the spirit generator numbers, so overall it's a buff. If I'm wrong then please, YOU do that math. ;)

Having said that, I'm still somewhat underwhelmed reading the new PTR patch notes. The blue post last week talking about the incoming buffs seemed to promise more.
Max spirit has nothing to do with this. It still takes more hits now to cast another LTK. That is a LARGE nerf compared to the 166%.

Just because we can cast more from max spirit doesn't mean that this isn't a terrible and very confusing nerf.
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The buffs put me .... you guessed it. In the exact same spot I was prior to this patch. Did not increase my kill times or my highest Greater rift. The buff to LTK was a net loss due to the increase in the cost. Why buff a skill by 15% and increase it's cost to 166%??? Makes no sense to me. It is like they intentionally try to negate any buffs by increasing the cost of the skill.
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08/05/2014 11:48 PMPosted by Cartman1337
08/05/2014 11:13 PMPosted by Darth
LTK moved up to 166% of its cost originally for like a 15% damage up. Do the Math people.

A note on that; maximum spirit was also increased from 150 to 250. With a 150 spirit pool, you could do 5 Lashing Tail Kicks for a cost of 30 spirit each, before running out of spirit. With a 250 spirit pool, you can do 5 Lashing Tail Kicks for a cost of 50 spirit each, before running out of spirit. That's a status quo, not a nerf, but you get about 15% extra damage. Filling up a full spirit pool should take about the same time as before, since they've also increased the spirit generator numbers, so overall it's a buff. If I'm wrong then please, YOU do that math. ;)

Having said that, I'm still somewhat underwhelmed reading the new PTR patch notes. The blue post last week talking about the incoming buffs seemed to promise more.


You forgot that on live, we have a passive that increases our spirit to 250, with paragon that boost it to 300. Thats 10 consecutive LTKs without any resource cost reduction, and you get 3 free LTKs per Reaper Wraps proc. In fact, when I play my LTK monk on live, Reaper Wraps account for more spirit gain than generators. Now with the passive and paragon, you are only able to go up to 350 spirit, which is 7 consecutive LTK where it used to be 10. And that same ratio translates over to Reaper Wraps procs too.

Also the spirit gen from Epiphany, other than the new rune, did not go up. So on live you can pop Epiphany and LTK mobs til they die, on PTR you can only do a fractions as many consecutive LTKs and have to spend the second half of your Epiphany uptime wailing away using generators. So there you go, LTK damage potential has been significantly nerfed by this increased spirit cost, and the higher base spirit does not make up for it, not even close.
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08/05/2014 11:48 PMPosted by Cartman1337
A note on that; maximum spirit was also increased from 150 to 250. With a 150 spirit pool, you could do 5 Lashing Tail Kicks for a cost of 30 spirit each, before running out of spirit. With a 250 spirit pool, you can do 5 Lashing Tail Kicks for a cost of 50 spirit each, before running out of spirit. That's a status quo, not a nerf, but you get about 15% extra damage. Filling up a full spirit pool should take about the same time as before, since they've also increased the spirit generator numbers, so overall it's a buff. If I'm wrong then please, YOU do that math. ;)

your initial or max. ressource-pool doesn't really matter.
assuming 1.4aps DW, no extra IAS and a 15% buff to the APS scaling (read that somewhere):

dualwielding 1.4 means you get 1.4*1.15 = 1.61 APS
wothf has a 1.16 aps modificator, so you get
1.61*1.16 = 1.87 "real" APS (patch 2.0.6)
1.87*1.15 = 2.15 "real" APS (patch 2.1)

wothf generates 12spi/hit, which means:
1.87*12 = 22.44 Spi/s (patch 2.0.6)
2.15*12 = 25.8 Spi/s (patch 2.1)

means further, the time to generate the ressources for 1 LTK is:
30/22.4 = 1.34s (patch 2.0.6)
50/25.8 = 1.94s (patch 2.1)

so (1.94s/1.34s = 1.45 = +45%) you spend ~45% more time generating your ressources for a benefit of (755%/624%) ~21% more dmg.
IAS on your gear doesn't really change anything, and the new passive won't compensate that.

hopefully someone finds an error in my math ... bc i don't like the sound of that :/
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Blah blah blah... It's over. They don't care and we're too dumb to hold them truly accountable. No point in whining anymore. Either lube up, take it like a man, and continue playing the monk knowing that it isn't going to get better. We're never going to be properly balanced. ooor... Stop playing Monks. Those are your options. People are going to keep throwing money at blizzard the next time a D3 expansion rolls around so why should the devs bother to do the extra work?
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@CtrlAltD1337 (cool handle), ymirsson and others who've commented
You're quite right. For some reason I believed I had read that the spirit generated by our generators had been increased too, but that not being the case, it is indeed a nerf. I'll keep sticking to other spenders, like I've done before, then.

The balancing of our generators seems to be all over the place now too. Disregarding attack speed scalars, doing three hits with the generators in the new patch (no rune):
- Crippling Wave: 3 * 175% = 525% wd
- Deadly Reach: 3 * 150% = 450% wd
- Fists of Thunder: 2 * 200% + 400% = 800% wd (!!!)
- Way of the Hundred Fists: 3 * 190% = 570% wd (but for instance the lightning rune gives nearly 1500% (3 * 490%) wd!)
Or am I just reading it completely wrong? Fists of Thunder certainly looks like it warrants another look now, though.
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@Cartman

FoT punches are single target and the 3rd is still divided between number of targets hit. So yes it is decent for boss fights. All other generators are aoe and none are divided by targets hit.
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For LTK, they probably just increased the spirit cost to help with Transcendence healing not thinking about or testing what other issues that causes. They justified it by having a bigger spirit pool and increased regeneration without truly understanding the mechanics. It really does feel like there is no one dedicated or passionate about the monk class at Bliz as this stuff is released. The worst part? It will probably stick.

The only other explanation I can give is that they have not done the 'real damage buff' patch and that the spirit cost will match what we expect for damage in the next PTR patch. If this is the case, than please let us know, Bliz.
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08/06/2014 03:22 AMPosted by CtrlAltD1337
You forgot that on live, we have a passive that increases our spirit to 250, with paragon that boost it to 300. Thats 10 consecutive LTKs without any resource cost reduction, and you get 3 free LTKs per Reaper Wraps pro


08/06/2014 03:26 AMPosted by ymirsson
means further, the time to generate the ressources for 1 LTK is:
30/22.4 = 1.34s (patch 2.0.6)
50/25.8 = 1.94s (patch 2.1)


^^ This and agreeing with a lot of what people said.

I'd also point out now that LTK ( kinda ) sucks as far as practicality even with higher radius. It makes more sense to use SW build. Now I could complain that oh so after all this were going back to Sweeping Wind, but hey if it works so be it I'm just not happy about having to wear a specific pair of gloves on Live ( Frostburns ) or in upcoming patch ( Alabaster ) to do t6 effectively.

I was playing with my clan mate last night and he was explaining to me why he doesn't like to team with my DPS monk ( I use a shatter palm w/ 1000 Rainments to help damage when Rime won't proc ) and that it must be Zdps..

Apparently he plays with Legit Rifters Community and by enlarge ( or possibly even to join ) you can't be on a DPS monk in a game as standard practice.. Somewhat similar to Crypts late in Vanilla but worse.

I need to do some more testing to consider whether I would even say there is a good t6 build in PTR for monk but there's no way its the damage it should be because there is no way of the stars aligning in a build to make that damage anywhere near ( always less than half what any m6 or Jade does ). Blizzard is thinking we should hit for 40 - 50m with fast attacks.. if that were the case it would be better than it is for my character switching over. Still a decent Mara's is the DH itself and 3 - 5 turrets doing 50+ CA 's with constant multishot everywhere. Sader is ~200m per attack for me right now on Shotgun if you count 3 diff rays and that is constant requiring no gimmick like jumping back and forth.
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08/06/2014 07:42 AMPosted by Darth
I'd also point out now that LTK ( kinda ) sucks as far as practicality even with higher radius. It makes more sense to use SW build. Now I could complain that oh so after all this were going back to Sweeping Wind, but hey if it works so be it I'm just not happy about having to wear a specific pair of gloves on Live ( Frostburns ) or in upcoming patch ( Alabaster ) to do t6 effectively.

You know Alabaster gloves have been removed, no?
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