Diablo® III


Posts: 3
One thing that sort of made me go "Uh?" was reading the lore of the Goat Clan (now called Khazra) on the Diablo III's official site. I guess now they're weird cursed/possessed tribesmen and not demonic hellspawn. Kinda makes me sad as I always thought of them as one of the coolest-looking demons and now they're just men/women who were transformed into angry goats by mages.

Are they demons?
Are they mutants?

I'm confused. Especially from this...

"The khazra continued to wage war on humanity, but without a source of demonic power to draw from, they became weak. Despite a slight unexplained resurgence twenty or so years ago, their fury steadily drained from them until they became the sluggish and muddled beings we know today."

So they're lame, slow, and generally undemonic in nature? Way to ruin one of my favorite minions from D2, Blizzard... *sniff*
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Posts: 815
This was the height of the Mage Clan Wars, and even the mighty Vizjerei mage clan was showing signs of stress brought about by the prolonged struggle. A faction of the Vizjerei resolved to construct an army using demon-possessed victims, and the peaceful umbaru clans seemed to fit the Vizjerei's needs. It is unknown how the clans first came into contact with the Vizjerei, but within the span of a decade or so, some of the future khazra clans had turned from their peaceful existence to all-out warfare with the Vizjerei. This was surely the result of seeing their brothers being painfully transformed into savage goat-like creatures by the Vizjerei
That maybe their origins centuries ago but now I assumed over time those possessed tribesmen's descendants continue basic human reproduction, and "evolved" of sort into the demonic creatures we see today. Unless there another source that has been ever constant over the years in turning hundreds of victims into possessed vessels, who change into goatmen.
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Posts: 239
The D3 info is going to canon now but it is a semi-retcon from their original origins. I say semi-retcon because the information on their back stories aren't mutually exclusive, the D1 manuals doesn't specifically say they are spawned from hell, just bred there. Baal could have taken notice of their ferocity and brought them there for his own enjoyment.

Taken from the Diablo 1 manual:

"Goat Men (Aries Vehemens)

The lieutenants of Baal are bred for strength, endurance, and cunning. These demons constantly train themselves in the art of war, for battle is their bread and the blood of innocents, their water. There are several known “clans” of Goat Men, each given a different gift from their Dark Master. It is believed that to earn their powers they once held mock wars in Hell for the entertainment of the Three Brothers. Do not expect them to fight amongst themselves on the mortal realm, however, for they much prefer to slaughter the innocent.

Like most of Baal's spawn, the bestial Aries are incredibly strong and agile. Be especially wary of their archers, for they are renowned for the accuracy and power of their great bows. Fleet of foot, they may try to evade an unwary foe and then attack from a different angle. "

Edited by Neinball on 8/26/2011 1:57 PM PDT
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Posts: 170
I don't think they're removing "demons" as you think of them. Two reasons for the changes you see though:

1. If the game was 80% demons in D3 it would limit the fun class abilities that allow for diversification. Point in case the assassin. The assassin in D2 had tons of bonuses against demon-class creatures, the paladin also had plenty of bonuses against undead. This is the technical side of the change.

2. In truth what the hell is a demon anyways (what the hell, haha :P)? Just becuase they change the "monster-class" doesn't mean they're not demonic in the sense of being evil/violent/gruesomely animated. I think the move away from 80% of the monsters being demons is a) creative b) broadens the story.

In D3 it looks like true "demons" are going to be (as you noticed) the bosses. The difference between the "demon" Diablo/Meph/Baal and the act 1 demon-class monsters was extreme.

With the idea blizzard is selling:

=> The game will ramp up in severity as you progress through the acts (darker and darker as you get near the end for instance).

This makes sense to have less demons.

Also- as far as the symbolism of a demon class creature goes... well you can call a fallen anything you want. They're still little demon imps to me. What you call em is just flavor/allowance for a diversification of skills and classes.
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Posts: 688
On a semi related note, what ARE Diablo II's act V Creatures? As Stated in lore Baal decided NOT to use local corrupted and displaced creatures, But created a Hellish army In between the time Diablo kicked it, and his invasion of Harrogath. If so how are they different from Act IV's creatures?

With Diablo we know his Deadliest minions of D1 were the corruption of Zakarum's western half, via Leoric's own knights and priests, (as Mephisto did with the eastern Half) And his protectors in D2 were hell's local denizens. So what was the process where Baal built his army?
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Posts: 688
Baal did Posses (and learn the secrets of) Tal Rasha, where Mephisto did the same with Sankekur and Diablo attempted to with King Leoric. Both of which were influential members of Zakarum, However, the Zakarum it's self may not have been as visionary or imaginative as some other human agencies, and Tal Rasha was part of the Horadrim (Simply a smarter person to posses.)
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100 Human Paladin
Posts: 71
09/02/2011 03:34 PMPosted by Shingan
I know! why didn;t he just posses one of those hell knights (corrupted servants of king leoric) those were pretty powerful vessels and they wouldn't fight him.

With him suppressed back in his Soul stone (Edit:which was after the Warrior beat Diablo back into it.) , the Warrior forced the Shard into his head and was like "Oh you think you so bad as* Diablo, get in my head see how you like it. PWND!". But seriously, that's why, Diablo didn't have much choice but to start to fight for his right to party/corrupt the Worldstone by starting in the Warrior for freedom and a vessel that would take him to his brothers and bust them from the cops and robbers. Silly terms but hopefully makes some swift answers to this all.

09/02/2011 03:34 PMPosted by Shingan
Frankly I have accepted that D2 did nothing but sodomize D1's lore and the book did nothing but further complicate issues.

Frankly, no offense, I get this feeling your wanting to go out on this long limp to Sodomize D2 and past lore that doesn't say D1 without a full understanding of it. Honestly it's starting to make me make frowny faces :( because if you would really read into it-- (or play the games..) you would have a better understanding to at least give a better debate Imo.
Edited by Thalend on 9/3/2011 1:16 AM PDT
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Posts: 1,417

no i will not debate, again, the threads are there. Go search for them. Most of the actions of the people involved make little to no sense and the mechanics are forked up from D1 to D2.

If you choose to believe that the lore was complete and there are no plot holes then that's your choice. Doesn't mean they don't exist.

I think an issue with your posts is that your knowledge of all the lore available is limited, you proclaim issues that have been addressed in lore as plot holes, and your arguments seem to boil down to two things:

1) You say there aren't enough demons in Diablo II and won't be enough in III.

2) You seem to dislike change.

I would go so far as to say that continuing to argue this is pointless - many of the posters here clearly have more information than you, and you apparently do not want to take that information into account.

The only rational answer is to start a blog.
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