Diablo® III

Did He Slip? Does He Care? Did He Know?

87 Undead Warlock
2850
Was looking at the old Act II intro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkJRxBlZi70&feature=related

Near the end Marius has a dream/vision of Tal Rasha with Baal being bound into him -things he's never seen before which happened ages ago and awakes from the Nightmare.

Dark Wanderer/Leoric's son says "Now you know what I seek Marius." without asking what he saw, and says "It is my brother. Sleep now, we set out with the dawn."

So what I'm wondering his

1. Dark Wanderer via the ending cinematic of D1 was heading for the east seeking salvation and ancient secrets to free him, BUT at THIS point...was he still Dark Wanderer from Tristram OR completely Diablo in a flesh suit? Did he slip up by mentioning that or did he actually give Marius the vision? Marius himself remarked "But these were not my own."

2. This is a big one here, prying into the nature of demons. Given then are big deep wells of hate and anger, by the voice acting and the expressions on the Wanderer/diablo's face...DO you think he cared about his brother the way that some mortal beings do? I think maybe he did, and human faces and voices are much more adept at conveying emotion than monstrous ones.

3.Was Marius too dumb to live, by not realizing he WASNT Tal Rasha's brother, but Baal's? OR was he thinking he was Tyrael's brother? Indeed I wonder what he was thinking during this whole adventure up until he abandoned the portal; did Diablo/Wanderer compel him to follow?

EDIT: I'm rewatching the first cinematic now, and I note that Marius says "Why do things happen as they do in dreams? All I know is that when he beckoned, I had to follow him."

4. Given Marius instrumental role in messing things up...did Diablo KNOW that Tyrael would be there waiting for him, and intend Marius to fulfil the role he did? You may recall Baal's line "You did exactly as you were meant to do."
Edited by Garamsythe on 9/17/2011 11:22 PM PDT
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1. Mostly Diablo in a flesh suit, it's likely that Diablo was even the one who planted the idea in the DW's head that potential salvation lie in the east and again that somehow the other soul stones offered respite.

2. Do the big 3 care about each other like mortal beings do? No, they're not mortal beings, why would immortals care the same way mortals do. Do the big 3 value each other? I think so, even if just as a way to preserve their own security. Baal has a battle quote regarding his brothers in ToD.

3. Brother? What brother? I really have no idea where you get any idea regarding Tyreal or Tal Rasha's brother

4. Most likely, Tyreal likely has more restrictions regarding his interaction with mortals then the burning hells care to follow.

Baals line was more taunting though then any great plan or fulfilled premonition.
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87 Undead Warlock
2850
09/18/2011 01:04 AMPosted by Lareit
3. Brother? What brother? I really have no idea where you get any idea regarding Tyreal or Tal Rasha's brother


I didnt get an idea. Marius did. The DW told Marius " Now YOU know what I seek Marius. It is my brother. Sleep now, we set out with the dawn."

Marius JUST heard this as he awoke from a vision of Tal Rasha, Tyrael, and Baal. Therefore Marius MUST have had something going on in his head. WHO did Marius think the DW's "brother" was when the DW mentioned them like that? It could only be one of those three figures in the vision, if not who else then?
Edited by Garamsythe on 9/18/2011 8:07 AM PDT
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85 Undead Priest
3510
09/18/2011 07:56 AMPosted by Garamsythe
3. Brother? What brother? I really have no idea where you get any idea regarding Tyreal or Tal Rasha's brother


I didnt get an idea. Marius did. The DW told Marius " Now YOU know what I seek Marius. It is my brother. Sleep now, we set out with the dawn."

Marius JUST heard this as he awoke from a vision of Tal Rasha, Tyrael, and Baal. Therefore Marius MUST have had something going on in his head. WHO did Marius think the DW's "brother" was when the DW mentioned them like that? It could only be one of those three figures in the vision, if not who else then?


I think it's safe to assume that everyone knows Diablo, Mephisto and Baal are brothers (in the game-world). And based on this assumption, I think it's also safe to assume that Marius understood who the Wanderer's brother was. No one ever wonders about brothers of Tyrael or Tal Rasha, because they were never important characters, if they ever existed. But a man that demands the attention and following of Marius through some supernatural means, and brings death and destruction wherever he goes (all of which Marius was privy to witness), could only be the brother of Baal.

I don't think there's any mystery in what happened. The (DI) hero is slowly corrupted. He makes a pilgrimage east to free his brothers. Along the way he picks up Marius to fill the role of "plan-B". The (DII) hero emerges and tracks down Mephisto and Diablo. Kills them. Marius slowly goes insane, and then is eventually killed by Baal. Baal marches on Arreat to use the World Stone. He's stopped by the (DII) hero. Tyrael destroys the World Stone to prevent Hell's use of it. People rejoice and get old for 20 years. DIII.

There are probably some points I missed, but I don't think there's any real question as to the lack of mystery. At the end of DII it's even pondered at what the consequences of destroying the World Stone are. Lacking any play-time with DIII I can't say this for certain, but I imagine that Diablo's return is little more than him taking advantage of some new method of travel no longer prevented by the World Stone.
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Based on the lore from the books we know that the three are master manipulators of mankind. It is highly probable that they had planned for all of the events step by step and even the attempted thwarting of said plan by Tyrael.

If they hadn't needed Marius, they sure as hell wouldn't have kept him around. In the beginning you're wondering if Marius is following around and safe simply because The Dark Wanderer is still at least part way in control.

After the fact however you're left with more the sense that Three's plan was in motion the entire time, and they all danced like puppets right up until the end.

Given the fact that Angels are generally extremely cunning and even more so than demons are, it makes you wonder if Tyrael himself didn't plan in part for the events that followed as a way of seeing the full potential of the race that he himself said could serve of even greater importance to the light than they (the Angels).
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87 Undead Warlock
2850
09/19/2011 10:18 PMPosted by Auspicious
it makes you wonder if Tyrael himself didn't plan in part for the events that followed as a way of seeing the full potential of the race that he himself said could serve of even greater importance to the light than they (the Angels).


Mysterious ways?
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85 Night Elf Warrior
0
1. The dark wanderer is suffering with diablo's influence whitin him, so he seek's out Adrias Help in some time before heading to the east, as explained into the beta of Diablo3, when you get to Adria's Hut. So, Aiden (the wanderer) is still alive. But shortly after, when he left to the East, its probably Diablo himself who is leading. And its Diablo who planted Marius's Dream in him, to show him what they were after. However, i cant figure out why Diablo kept Marius along with him all the time. Even whe Diablo regain his true form and leave to hell, following Mephisto's orders, Marius was still alive.

2. Diablo is the youngest brother of the three prime evils, and the only one that was able to walk freely in sanctuary because of The wanderer's decision to put his soulstone within himself. So he knew that freeing his elder brothers would be the only way to achieve their plan. SO he went to the east to free them. Though, i dont think they care for each other like humans do. They are 100% evil.

3. Good question, thats what i have been wondering too. But no, Marius didnt thought he was Tal Rasha's Brother, nor tyrael's...Marius was compelled to follow Diablo, but thought they were going to save tal rasha instead of opening the portal to hell, IMO. When Diablo left, he could then leave that horrible place. But thats when Tyrael, for whatever god knows reason, imbues him with the responsibility of going to hell and destroying the soulstones....

4.Hmmm probably not. I think Diablo only felf the need to free his brothers, and then, Mephisto, as the Elder and cunning brother, give him instructions on what to do and he obbeys. Maybe Mephisto knew about Tyrael's Presence/Role in this plot, since he was the one that made a pact along with the high heavens concerning the safety of sanctuary and the worldstone.


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87 Undead Warlock
2850
09/20/2011 09:18 AMPosted by Brunobyof
. But thats when Tyrael, for whatever god knows reason, imbues him with the responsibility of going to hell and destroying the soulstones....


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceJobBreakingItHero
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85 Night Elf Warrior
0
sorry?
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