Diablo® III

2 major design questions from beta

Posts: 138
Out of all the idea of swapping skill that have been mentions, I personally like the casting time for changing skills.

Going to town would be somewhat annoying just to swap skills.

Putting something like a 30 minute cooldown would make me NEVER want to change skills except when I'm leaving for the night.

A 5 second Interruptable Cast Time would make a good solution since you're not force to return to town, can't move, and if you're in battle you're bound to be hit within 5 seconds at least once. Maybe a limit it to damage while in combat so that lasting DoT's don't interrupt.

I immediately see a problem with changing skills in combat like it is because I know many people have keyboards with macro keys and people would be switching from pure AoE Builds to Single target, to Line target in an instant. Not good planning on Blizzards part if you ask me. Also in PvP the person with macros will most likely win against the guy without them giving an advantage do to Real Life tech rather then in game skill. Though pvp isn't a big deal for Diablo 3.

As for Out of Combat switching only, it seems like EVERY game that has this generally ends up with glitches of unknown enemies aggroing a player and then the player can't switch skills, can't heal, cant recover resources. That sort of thing.

5 seconds does not interrupt the flow of the game any more then opening the panel and switching out the skills (which at 60 level could take 2-3 minutes deciding) and tacking it on to the end of your selection doesn't interrupt flow too much but will take you out of the action enough that you can't fight AND switch. It also isn't too much time for your party members to wait, or allow them to get too far ahead of you if they won't wait.
A problem for this might be boss fights with large parties seeing as the boss can only concentrate on one person giving others the chance to change to Pure single target builds.
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Posts: 129
09/16/2011 05:12 PMPosted by Tramik

My suggestion would be to allow the player to swap skills if they have not taken damage for x amount of seconds. Judging from the DH passive ability Brooding, this type of mechanic is possible.


I agree with this x amount of time since receiving damage or last using a skill.


I guess you'd have to work out something to include pets in that, and possibly just changing it so it's, "x amount of seconds since being targeted by an enemy," or "x amount of seconds since being seen by an enemy."

I assume there would be situations where you could actually go 10 or even 20 seconds without taking damage, between pets and party members. That actually wouldn't be that bad, and even if it is just "can't swap skills for 10 seconds after being damaged or using a skill," that would be much better than the current system. Changing it slightly might make it a bit better though.
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100 Orc Warrior
11000
Posts: 562
Anyone complaining about the skill swapping should seriously be quiet.

Or you can turn Diablo into World of Diablocraft LAWL.

Don't even think about the "respeccing" !@#$ at all.

By the way, 6 spells is all we need.

Edited by Modrápohlavi on 9/16/2011 5:18 PM PDT
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Posts: 70
Aren't auto attacks a key part of demon hunter play? I don't really think they should have to swap spells constantly to make use of their 6 abilities, auto attacks, and potions. Is it really that insane to have a separate slot for a potion? It seems completely intuitive to me.
Edited by Blosudasd on 9/16/2011 5:20 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
16910
Posts: 1,274


We're currently testing a few different solutions, but I don't have anything specific to report on that front just yet. We're okay with players changing their builds while they're out adventuring, but we're not comfortable with players running around with their skill pane open swapping skills during combat. We'd also rather not have a system which forces players to return to town. We’ve tried it, and it feels really bad. Of course, worse comes to worse and if our attempts to curb use in combat fail, it could very well be what we have to resort to.


I really really hope it doesn't come down to only allowing the switching of skills in town. That seems like a very unnatural and silly way to restrict us to only using a few abilities. That would almost seem as though it's more detrimental to the game then actually being allowed to switch skills in combat. This would be especially true while people are first learning characters. I don't want to be forced to town regularly because I wanted to experiment with new abilities.

I assume it's just not possible currently to flag the character as being in combat and prohibiting use of the skill pane, or to add new abilities to the hotbars?
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Posts: 228
I know people hate the idea of "WoW-itizing" Diablo, but make the swapping like WoW.

5-10 second cast and a resource wipe. I know some resources are more valuable than others (Witch Doctor would be SoL, while Barbarian would be fine), but it would prevent the abuse of it.

Or add a durability loss to your equipment, say 5% every swap because of the force of the awesomeness of skill swapping.

Both are crappy solutions but I honestly think being able to spam swaps on the fly doesn't seem right. And going back to town to switch would be as bad as it was in WoW before Dual Specs were introduced.
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Posts: 73
What about people with multi-button mice(im using a razer orochi)? Can we bind skills to say for example mouse 3? mouse 4? mouse 5?
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Posts: 3,291
Suggestions:

1) Aforementioned cast time to swap a skill, cast time increases as you level up to some maximum (no more than 10 seconds), or possibly scales with the difficulty selected (normal - instant, nightmare - 3 seconds, hell - 6 seconds, inferno 9 seconds).

2) Socketing a rune in an ability locks it as an active ability. Runes can only be socketed in 'active' skills. To pull a runed skill off the list requires the rune be removed first. Low level runes are free to pull out of skills. Higher level runes are extra powerful and require resources to remove from a skill. The player can use gold to remove the rune from the socket out in the field. The process has a cast time.

3) Cooldown on swapping skills. The cooldown increases with every level gained - i.e. no cooldown at the lowest levels, scaling up to a few minutes at max level. Possibly costs gold as well to swap skills.

I think there must be a penalty to swapping at the highest levels. Without some restriction, it make the player character very generic with regards to abilities.
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Posts: 889
I'm glad Blizzard has finally decided to address the "swapping skills in combat" issue that has been a major concern for some people for a while. I've read through quite a number of threads with various solutions, and here are some of the better/more popular ones:

1. Having runes be the limiting factor regarding swapping. Anytime you swap a skill out, you lose the rune in it. This would limit for a while, until players had build up a huge number of current-level runes (if that is even realistic). Eventually, though, there could be a time when players have enough runes to feel comfortable losing them if they really want say, an escape skill right away. A major issue with this is it actually DISCOURAGES out of combat-skill swapping as much as in-combat skill swapping, so you may not be willing to try different skills/rune effects.

2. One I came up with is basically pulled straight from WoW (which is why I sort of don't like it, but it might work reasonably well). That is simply to put your character in a "in combat" state while attacking/being hit by enemies, and 5-10 seconds after. In WoW, this locks out swapping gear (except weapons) in combat, and could lock-out skill swapping in this game. It is a decent solution, although it feels a little bit "hacky" to me, to just rip it right from WoW.

3. Some sort of cooldown on abilities, when swapped in. This means swapping in combat would be pretty ineffective, as you would be just locking out your abilities for a while. Seems like a decent plan; finding the right amount of time to discourage in combat swapping and encourage out of combat swapping would probably be the key here.

There are others, but those are the ones I think were getting the most traction.
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Posts: 307
I better solution to out-door quick swapping is adding a cool-down on the passive / active, say 10-30 seconds. People will find it worthless to quick swap in the middle of battle.
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Posts: 53
I have a question relevant: Can you swap out runes during combat? If you cannot, then I really don't see a problem with skill switching. Oh hey, can you have the same skill attached to your roster multiple times with different runes embedded? It would be cool as a barbarian for instance to be able to WW with an alabaster rune for most mobs, then have the speed buff or extra damage for bosses.
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Posts: 215
I'm more concerned with the skill swapping in PvP.. People running and swapping skills in combat to me is already an abuse to the game, but if you can do it in combat i think it's be even worse, and would piss me off during the match. Have there been any solutions for this? 30 seconds before each round to change it up (with a ready up menu in case everyone doesn't need to change anything or has already done it.)
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Posts: 29
09/16/2011 05:25 PMPosted by JohnnyTruant
I'm more concerned with the skill swapping in PvP.. People running and swapping skills in combat to me is already an abuse to the game, but if you can do it in combat i think it's be even worse, and would piss me off during the match. Have there been any solutions for this? 30 seconds before each round to change it up (with a ready up menu in case everyone doesn't need to change anything or has already done it.)


I agree. But then again I feel that fixing this in PVP is as simple as not allowing skill swapping while inside an arena. Players could also be given a minute to prepare before the arena round starts.
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Posts: 349
Require town-trips on any difficulty above normal, and completely disabled during pvp matches.

By the time people are moving on to nightmare, they should be finished experimenting. This prevents people from skill switching to farm bosses (no one's gonna really farm normal) without punishing newbies.
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85 Goblin Death Knight
840
Posts: 118
I hope if you can't get anything other than "only changing in town" to work, that you at least make it so you only have to do that sometime after normal difficulty. It would be annoying going back to town every time you gain a new skill. I actually wouldn't mind it that much if you only had to go back to town in nightmare and farther, since by then I assume most people will have an idea of how to play, and any changes would require moving runestones around anyway.


with you on this on the way to lvl 30 you are earning new skill and wanting to try them out as you go. So if it comes down to going to town atleast wait to nightmare and higher . I do wonder if they go this route of making it cost gold to change skills and/or runes out as another gold sink?
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Posts: 3,291
Per the website run section There is already a limit of 7 (6 now?) on amount skills that can be runed, which will prevent skill swapping from being exploited much because skills that are swapped out will not be runed and therefore be much less useful/powerful. Runes can only be changed in town, which will effectively give us our specific builds later into the game.


Where is this stated exactly? All I see is:

"In Diablo III, you can socket runestones into any skill you've chosen. Runestones give you unprecedented control over your skills and powers, changing elemental damage types, accuracy, and area of effect; adding new debilitating effects like slows and stuns; and even altering the nature and appearance of your abilities."

It doesn't say anything about how many skills you can socket or if you can remove a socketed skill from your active skills.
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Posts: 53
09/16/2011 05:25 PMPosted by JohnnyTruant
I'm more concerned with the skill swapping in PvP.. People running and swapping skills in combat to me is already an abuse to the game, but if you can do it in combat i think it's be even worse, and would piss me off during the match. Have there been any solutions for this? 30 seconds before each round to change it up (with a ready up menu in case everyone doesn't need to change anything or has already done it.)


If you really think that opening your skill tree to manually swap out skills is something you would do during an arena match, I would be glad to farm free kills off your bod.
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Posts: 2,751

3. Some sort of cooldown on abilities, when swapped in. This means swapping in combat would be pretty ineffective, as you would be just locking out your abilities for a while. Seems like a decent plan; finding the right amount of time to discourage in combat swapping and encourage out of combat swapping would probably be the key here.


I really like this idea over using a cast time. It still discourages swapping in combat but it also makes swapping some or even all of your skills out of combat. It means that in normal instead of spending 30 seconds casting skill swaps, you spend 5 and can at least run around town or the field while you wait the 30 seconds for your skills to cool down.

A low level character may not even notice the cool down since they'll probably drop it in and spend a bit of time reading the skill or finding the appropriate place to put it in their action bar.
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