Diablo® III

2 major design questions from beta

Posts: 59
I think making players go back to town and have to pay a gold cost ,based on the clve, to change a skill would be great for two reasons. One it is another way of taking gold out of the economy. Two it makes people more specilized so they feel like they have a "summon" WD or w/e, this gives a little more distinction to toons and may add to "replay-ability". I can image making a PVP WD and a PVE WD if the cost was substantial enough.
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Posts: 256
I feel like the continuation of that sentence, not for you in particular but for others, is, "I need to matter."
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Posts: 357
Balance: How do they balance the difficult parts of the game? If they don't balance it around having the best skills for the situation then doesn't it become too easy for the player who chooses to change their skills to optimize for every encounter they run into? If they do balance it around someone who has the optimum build for a given situation, doesn't that then make on the fly skill swaps mandatory. And if they cant be performed in combat (cast time, out of combat req, cooldown), then doesn't that then FORCE the player to interrupt the flow of the game by forcing skill swaps?


I can't come up with any fallacies with the above.

I don't think it will be that simple though, and you have to consider that in a team, you'll be well rounded with your allies, and having them expect us to have a single target dps and an aoe dps could happen.

Bosses will probably have lots of ally spawns as well, so simple single target dps may make you get overrun.
And, if anything else,
http://us.blizzard.com/diablo3/world/systems/encounters.xml
Sounds like there's not going to be simple optimal either. I suppose they WILL have an advantage though. I reckon they want players to be able to change their build if they realize it's not working out as well.
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Posts: 1,683
IMO Limit free skill swapping to normal difficulty only. Once you reach nightmare, insert a penalty or force the player to return to a town and pay a fee to respec. Skill swapping is great for beginners, but no one should be using it freely during the harder difficulties where the build is mostly finalized, the player is familiar with most skills, and has invested into a certain play style.

Should they decide that they chose the wrong path, they can still switch things around, just at a cost, and with a small time investment.
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Posts: 56
How about using runes to artificially lock skills in place? Once you socket a rune into a skill it locks the skill and rune into that place until an enchanter can remove it. That way players who wish to play without runes can do so with freedom to swap on-the-fly.

Once you decide on the runes to use the skills gain a sense of permanence and players begin to hone their build orders. If they wish to alter your skills you must do so with the aid of an enchanter in town.

Can you speak about this as an option?


I like this, but I would think they would add the ability to play with rune effects a little bit. Possibly make it so you can remove runes lvl 1-3 by yourself, but the higher 4-7 lvl runes must be removed by the artisan only.
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Posts: 2,751
How about using runes to artificially lock skills in place? Once you socket a rune into a skill it locks the skill and rune into that place until an enchanter can remove it. That way players who wish to play without runes can do so with freedom to swap on-the-fly.

Once you decide on the runes to use the skills gain a sense of permanence and players begin to hone their build orders. If they wish to alter your skills you must do so with the aid of an enchanter in town.

Can you speak about this as an option?


I like this, but I would think they would add the ability to play with rune effects a little bit. Possibly make it so you can remove runes lvl 1-3 by yourself, but the higher 4-7 lvl runes must be removed by the artisan only.


This is a nice idea but I think the intention is that level 1 and 2 runes are so common that you won't have to remove them. They could easily disappear with each skill change and you should have plenty still to test other options.
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100 Troll Mage
13970
Posts: 943
...but we're not comfortable with players running around with their skill pane open swapping skills during combat.


I'm very relieved to hear that and I hope that isn't the case at launch.

09/16/2011 04:29 PMPosted by Daxxarri
We'd also rather not have a system which forces players to return to town. We’ve tried it, and it feels really bad. Of course, worse comes to worse and if our attempts to curb use in combat fail, it could very well be what we have to resort to.


If you're really, REALLY against asking players to commit to builds at higher levels, even to the point of returning to town, then how about detecting hostiles in the player's vicinity? If there are no monsters present within a certain radius, unlock skill slots?
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Posts: 361
What about allowing keyboard aliases for the mouse buttons?
For me its currently a total of 5 usable slots, not 8


09/16/2011 06:47 PMPosted by Dreyfuss
If you're really, REALLY against asking players to commit to builds at higher levels, even to the point of returning to town, then how about detecting hostiles in the player's vicinity? If there are no monsters present within a certain radius, unlock skill slots?

I like this approach
Edited by VTS on 9/16/2011 6:50 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,125
09/16/2011 04:29 PMPosted by Daxxarri
We're currently testing a few different solutions, but I don't have anything specific to report on that front just yet. We're okay with players changing their builds while they're out adventuring, but we're not comfortable with players running around with their skill pane open swapping skills during combat. We'd also rather not have a system which forces players to return to town. We’ve tried it, and it feels really bad. Of course, worse comes to worse and if our attempts to curb use in combat fail, it could very well be what we have to resort to.


I am relieved to hear this again now I don't have to worry about swapping skill to be meta game anymore. Thanks you.
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Posts: 83
I think that it should work like the Hearthstone in wow, cast time, cooldown AND out of combat. That way you could lets say.. start using it out of combat and some dude(s) could run up and hit you- and then you'd have to kill him(them) before you could try again. After using it, it would have a cooldown that scales with level (higher cooldown time as you level up).
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Posts: 28
A good way to solve de second problem is locking the skill in the slot when u put a runestone. If u want to unlock the slot to put another skill you loose your runestone 4ever.
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85 Draenei Shaman
4725
Posts: 5,785
Skill choice needs to matter. There needs to be a consequence.


When you have a Rune of every color of level 7 for every one of your skills that you can carry around in your inventory to be able to change your skill effects along with skills on a whim then you can tell me that skill choices don't matter. Because which Rune to put into the skill is also a "skill choice".

Why do people keep forgetting that Runes actually have a tangible effect on how skills operate or effect game play? It seems like every time I see this argument I see people lamenting about lack of skill choice, seemingly "coincidentally", forgetting that you can only have one Rune in the skill at a time, and that each skill has 5 variations off of the base skill, and that each Rune when not socketed takes up inventory space.

So not only are you picking which skill, you're picking the Rune, and unless you want to take up a ton of space in your inventory (and I doubt the inventory has over 100 slots -yes I know the stash does-), you're going to be carefully picking which Rune to use and if you want to change it you'll probably end up going back to your stash in town to change the Rune. Which, surprisingly enough, is the "solution" that all ya'll keep throwing out.

So, oh dear, the base skills you feel should be permanent. The permanence has shifted from the skills themselves to the Runes, because you'll have to make a choice. Do you want the true flexibility to not only have access to your preferred variation of the rune as well as several other variations? Then you are sacrificing inventory space. If you want the inventory space and will deal with going back to access the stash if you decide that a different variation on skill Zeta is what you want to play with now, then there is the other "consequence".

You just have to pick your consequence: lack of inventory space, or going back to the stash.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6255
Posts: 777
09/16/2011 04:29 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Depending on your skills you can have both left and right mouse button bound to skills (and pressing 'x' will swap your right-mouse with yet another skill button for a total of 3 mouse binds)


That's good, but what I really want to know is: will I have a keybind to swap to another set of weapons?


And a suggestion: Skills can't be swapped in combat, or even inside certain dungeons. Just don't make it a gold sink, please.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6255
Posts: 777
09/16/2011 07:01 PMPosted by Valael
and unless you want to take up a ton of space in your inventory



You don't know what charms are, right? Those little pesky ones, +20 vit?
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85 Gnome Mage
2935
Posts: 311
I can rest easy knowing I don't need to have the skill panel open when fighting lol.
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Posts: 157
09/16/2011 04:29 PMPosted by Daxxarri
We're okay with players changing their builds while they're out adventuring, but we're not comfortable with players running around with their skill pane open swapping skills during combat


Daxxarri, so is it okay with players changing their skills before every combat to minimize the obvious risk rather than experiment, especially in Hardcore where death means game over ?
Edited by Malfunction on 9/16/2011 7:41 PM PDT
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85 Human Rogue
EP
7075
Posts: 2,565
09/16/2011 04:29 PMPosted by Daxxarri
We're currently testing a few different solutions, but I don't have anything specific to report on that front just yet. We're okay with players changing their builds while they're out adventuring, but we're not comfortable with players running around with their skill pane open swapping skills during combat. We'd also rather not have a system which forces players to return to town. We’ve tried it, and it feels really bad. Of course, worse comes to worse and if our attempts to curb use in combat fail, it could very well be what we have to resort to.

First of all let me thank you with all my might that you are looking in to this, as my only genuine fear about this game was the current system being the final solution.
Secondly, let me just say that if you guys can't come up with an elegant solution (I know I can't), my personal opinion is that I would be happy to return to town to respec rather than allow the current system.

Thank you for all your hard work, and here's to an early release :)
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Community Manager
Posts: 2,131
Daxxarri, so is it okay with players changing their skills before every combat to minimize the obvious risk rather than experiment, especially in Hardcore where death means game over ?


It's not something that we're necessarily opposed to. Not yet, anyway. Bash made a post over here on the subject:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3196390293#3
Edited by Daxxarri on 9/16/2011 8:04 PM PDT
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