Diablo® III

What changes do YOU want to see to DH?

85 Troll Shaman
2980
Posts: 77
Since they have announced the Demon Hunter Hate/Discipline is being changed, it sounds like they are making Hate like Spirit and Discipline like mana. That might be cool, we'll see.

In my opinion, it would be really cool and unique if the DH didn't USE UP resources to perform spells, but instead HATE/DISCIPLINE were a scale. When using abilities it pushed the scale towards either Hate or Discipline, and you needed to keep a balance between the two. Attack spells would push your balance toward Hatred, and utility/defense/cc spells would push you towards Discipline.

Sometimes, you would want to go far into one or the other, but most of the time you would want a good balance. For example, if your meter gets higher into hatred, you do a bit more damage (20% max), but because you lack discipline you take a LOT more damage (200%). If it gets to disciplined, your attack speed drops signifigantly (50%), but you gain more defense (~20% less damage taken).

What do you think, or post your ideas. (Posted this yesterday in general but if fell off in 10 seconds).
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Posts: 319
Since they have announced the Demon Hunter Hate/Discipline is being changed, it sounds like they are making Hate like Spirit and Discipline like mana. That might be cool, we'll see.

In my opinion, it would be really cool and unique if the DH didn't USE UP resources to perform spells, but instead HATE/DISCIPLINE were a scale. When using abilities it pushed the scale towards either Hate or Discipline, and you needed to keep a balance between the two. Attack spells would push your balance toward Hatred, and utility/defense/cc spells would push you towards Discipline.

Sometimes, you would want to go far into one or the other, but most of the time you would want a good balance. For example, if your meter gets higher into hatred, you do a bit more damage (20% max), but because you lack discipline you take a LOT more damage (200%). If it gets to disciplined, your attack speed drops signifigantly (50%), but you gain more defense (~20% less damage taken).

What do you think, or post your ideas. (Posted this yesterday in general but if fell off in 10 seconds).
The Hate/Discipline scale doesn't really make sense to me in the context of how they want Hatred and Discipline to work right now. Hatred is meant to be a rapidly regenerating resource spent on most of your aggressive abilities and Discipline is meant to be a very, very limited defensive resource or a resource you use in preparation for a fight (Sentry, companion, caltrops). The idea of a scale immediately kind of kills off the rapidly regenerating part of Hatred (You naturally are at a state of 0 discipline/full hatred? That would defeat the preparatory nature of how several Discipline abilities work right now), and implies that during a fight you will absolutely have to use Discipline abilities to continue fighting even if you don't necessarily need to use a defensive maneuver right there and then.

There are probably going to be fights in multiplayer games where you won't necessarily become the target of what you're fighting, so you'd have situations where you'd have to arbitrarily tumble/smoke screen/lay a Caltrops under you (Can caltrops be tossed? Last I heard it is just applied where you're standing) when it was completely unnecessary as a defensive ability, and that may leave you running low on Discipline in the future when you may actually need it.

So to make a Hatred/Disc scale work, they'd probably have to significantly change the Discipline abilities and add some new ones. With how the skills work now, though, I think the 2 separate pools that start at full and regenerate at different rates makes more sense.

Also, I could swear I've seen Blizzard comment on this idea and say it's not what they wanted to do, but I can't find that anywhere.
Edited by Wind on 9/24/2011 9:59 AM PDT
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85 Troll Druid
3535
Posts: 415
This doesn't make all that much sense. If you're not in trouble you won't be using disc abilities. Then suddenly if you're in trouble you're screwed. The concept of using a defensive ability, even if you don't need it, just to stay towards the middle of the spectrum is kinda weird.

Also, if you don't actually spend energy to use abilities, then you just end up spamming the highest damage attack.
Edited by Dahippee on 9/24/2011 10:44 AM PDT
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Posts: 230
Everyone keeps on bringing up this sort of equilibrium between Hatred and Discipline idea but I really don't think it would work.

You'd have to move offensive skills over to the Discipline side, and by that point you might as well just get rid of Discipline altogether, in which case you would end up exactly where the DH is now... Hatred builders and spenders.

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Posts: 267
I'm not totally sold on the Hatred builder/spender split either, but plenty others have already bemoaned the conceptual similarity between it and the resource mechanics of other classes. That being said, the change does accomplish what Blizzard seems to want from a design standpoint: The freedom to always have some sort of special skill to spam even when you run out of your class resource. Running out of Hatred and being forced to auto attack while you wait on it would be a lot less fun, I think.

Biggest thing that I'd like to see is just skill polishing and reworking. Vault needs perhaps a jumping component added to its animation so it doesn't get stuck on every little staircase or random world object. Now that Fan of Knives has a cooldown on it, I think the base range should be bumped up to 15 yards from 10 so that you can more reliably snare a pack of mobs closing around you and then back away to start laying into them. Lastly, I would love to see rune effects for Caltrops and Spike Trap that allow you to throw the trap to a targeted location instead of at your feet.

Neither of those trap abilities impress me much because I don't really like the idea of backpedaling the entire time that I'm fighting. Let me try and qualify that by saying that I liked the Amazon probably more than any other class in D2, and perhaps hold an affinity to "Ranger" classes in general, so I understand that the vast majority of my movement in combat is going to be away from monsters to keep a standoff distance and avoid damage. But if you lay a trap at your feet, the only direction you can run is backwards so that the mobs walk into it. You can't circle around or they just turn and run after you, leaving the trap all by itself to be sad and forlorn and useless. I would really like the option to toss those traps out in front of me and have them affect my targets when I am holding my own position or moving forward. It also might add an interesting PvP application in throwing a trap out past an opponent to cut off an angle of retreat from you or a teammate.
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Posts: 341
I think some of the demon hunter abilities may have trouble scaling because they look like spell casts and not attacks. Skills like shadow power or the caltrops or spike traps need to have their 'cast time' decreased from decreases in attack speed. If you have a two handed crossbow or big slow hitter with 1.00 attacks per second, it should take longer to cast traps and discipline abilities such as vault than if you have dual wield tiny cross bows. And your long bows should fall somewhere between the two.
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09/24/2011 03:23 PMPosted by Pesty
Lastly, I would love to see rune effects for Caltrops and Spike Trap that allow you to throw the trap to a targeted location instead of at your feet.


Spike Trap can be thrown, check out the very beginning of the video, the DH throws spike trap a couple times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HM7RnAHDBU

Caltrops I think works fine as it is, you mainly use it when enemies are getting too close. You drop it at your feet and then back off a bit. What I like to do is drop it and attack with Evasive Fire. Once they get close, the trap is sprung and I vault backwards automatically.
Edited by JumpyMonkey on 9/25/2011 9:30 PM PDT
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Posts: 267
Wow, can't believe that I missed that functionality on Spike Trap. That certainly makes me glad to hear. I'd almost written the ability off since I didn't know if it would function in the context that I was looking for.

I agree that Caltrops works fine, but the transformation from being a static placement at your feet to a targeted location seems right up the alley for what a rune effects might be able to offer. Might allow for the ability to be used a bit more proactively than the purely defensive role that you listed in your example.
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90 Human Paladin
0
Posts: 214

you lack discipline


Discipline, come from within.
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90 Human Paladin
0
Posts: 214
But seriously, changes I'd like to see:

Haven't seen companion yet due to the beta level cap, but if its not already I'd like to see the companion be a transfigured shadow entity. So the animal it says it is but made of shadow magic.

I'd like to have all references to rockets/bullets/shells removed and replaced with shadow magic projectiles, or just explosive projectiles. Rockets/bullets/shells fired from bows doesn't make sense.

I'd like to hear bow sounds when using a bow, and crossbow sounds when using a crossbow, not a gun sound.

I'd like to have a rune that makes the Sentry mobile.

Finally and most importantly, I'd like to have beta access :D
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Posts: 47
But seriously, changes I'd like to see:

Haven't seen companion yet due to the beta level cap, but if its not already I'd like to see the companion be a transfigured shadow entity. So the animal it says it is but made of shadow magic.

I'd like to have all references to rockets/bullets/shells removed and replaced with shadow magic projectiles, or just explosive projectiles. Rockets/bullets/shells fired from bows doesn't make sense.

I'd like to hear bow sounds when using a bow, and crossbow sounds when using a crossbow, not a gun sound.

I'd like to have a rune that makes the Sentry mobile.

Finally and most importantly, I'd like to have beta access :D


I seriously agree with this one. My favorite char was easily my geared bowazon, and the thought of having "Rockets" being mixed in and the sounds it makes... totally seems out of character with the whole game world where magic is the force behind things. If I want guns and a rocket launcher, I'd play a sci-fi game or FPS. This is diablo, we shoot arrows, javelins, throwing knives, darts etc. Let's stick to the medieval stuff. As to the skills/play element... Until I have a chance to play and test out how it works and fits my gameplay style I guess I can't really comment. But I don't like hearing that what was usually the best damaging class in D2 is now the weakest... but maybe the DH scales up more than others beyond lvl 13?
Edited by TheGull on 9/28/2011 1:50 PM PDT
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Posts: 230
Guys, they're not Patriot missiles or anything.

I'm assuming they'll be more like this:

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/C/Chinese_fire-arrows.html
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90 Human Paladin
0
Posts: 214
Guys, they're not Patriot missiles or anything.

I'm assuming they'll be more like this:

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/C/Chinese_fire-arrows.html


Yes, I understand the intent was likely to resemble ancient fireworks, but notice how those chinese fire arrows are launched from a contained box? Launching fireworks from a bow or crossbow sounds like the makings of a FAILBlog.org video.

Also on a side note, some of the rune descriptions (Evasive Fire, Impact) mention 'bullets' and 'shells'. I smell guns.
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90 Human Paladin
0
Posts: 214
Of course these descriptions, and the skills themselves may change as the beta progresses.
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Posts: 5
The concept OP made would work just fine, but offensive and defensive skills would have to be split between the two resource systems.

Regarding changes I'd like to see...

More unique spells. I'd rather trash a few of the arrow abilities for either A. more interesting ones or B. more shadow and trap abilities.
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86 Night Elf Druid
4545
Posts: 58
Honestly, I find how they have it now seems pretty good. I hope its stays relatively the same, and that its just a few regen tweeks
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85 Orc Death Knight
2395
Posts: 188
i want the class with the most complicated resource system. (that's why i play dk in wow)

If they change the resource system to ur suggestion, i'll roll mage :)
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Posts: 13
Rockets will most likely look like they do in this demonstration (When showing the indigo rune):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkp-Nf_h-fo
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Posts: 308
Better passives. Jeez they're all so generic. And not one of them has anything to do with improving his resistances or anything. In fact, none of his skills help him in this regard, unlike with the monk or wizard. :(

DH is gonna be the squishiest by far.
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