Diablo® III

The design flaw in Dogs + Sacrifice

60 Human Warlock
Posts: 28
yeah I dunno. I wouldnt be surprised if you could get more than 4 dogs out at once through the use of voodoo/confuse.. though id bet that the dogs you get from those abilities wont have any special rune functions like your summoned dogs do.
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60 Human Warlock
Posts: 28

Here is a possible nuking build.

Summon the dogs in town and wait 6 seconds, then sacrifice and resummon.

with those runes you are doing 200% damage with firebats. The direbats rune makes it do about 630 damage per second... start fights with 3 casts of haunt.. that will be giving you about 170 mana per second. So you should be able to sustain direbats for a good amount of time.

You have dogs and big stinker to provide AOE dot damage and tanking, and horrify with a long duration fear for tough situations.

This doesnt take into account your attack stat... which, when multiplied by your sacrifice bonus will probably make your dire bats do disgusting damage, and improve the mana regen from haunt.

I foresee builds like this being the FOTM for nuking WDs.
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Posts: 9
Its the Crimson rune in Sacrifice. 40% damage boost for 1 minute for every dog sacrificed? Thats awesome! Until you realize that this does not really benefit pet-centric witch doctors as much as it does spell-centric WDs.

You sure about that? I was under the impression that your zombie dogs, and the gargantuan's stats scale based off of your own. So if you get a damage boost, why wouldn't this trickle down to your pets as well?
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60 Human Warlock
Posts: 28
Yeah im sure that it would effect your pet damage as well.. but your pets dont hit as hard as your spells. A spell caster would benefit more from the damage buff.
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Posts: 1,048
Well this discussion is pretty much over. 120% damage is actually very common and doesn't look that impressive when you look at......


Tal Rasha's Fine-Spun Cloth
39–43 Armor
Adds 131-271% more damage to Wizards only
+51-60 Fire Resistance
50-54% Better Chance of Finding Magical Items
+2 Random Properties

Seems that +% damage is common
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Posts: 1,274
There's many ways to balance it. For one, there's still no telling if the buff will stack. It could be a new buff that overwrites the last one every time you cast sacrifice again.

Then, how much damage is 120% damage, exactly? We don't know if it'll effectively double the amount of damage you do, or if it adds up to your other damage modifier to only add slightly more than the base damage to your attacks.

It's valid concern, but it's also a lot of assumption with incomplete data. Going as far as calling it a design flaw when design just isn't even finished yet is a little pushy.

Also of note, zombie dogs will probably calculate their damage just like every other spell in the game: a percentage of your weapon damage, modified by your attack and other bonuses. That means they should scale from the sacrifice buff.
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Posts: 80
Runes aren't in the game yet, we don't know how exactly this is going to effect WD damage. Maybe it does apply to dogs and subsequent sacrifice spells. Maybe the idea is to cascade the effect again and again.

We don't know.
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Posts: 2,312
Pets share your stats. There you have it. Sacrifice then, get the buff, summon the again, and throw some AoE and DoTs to mix it up.
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Posts: 67
Your forgetting a few things.

The dogs will be out most of the time, You sacrafices them when the spawn cooldown ends so, they count for a support/tank/light damage spell. Meaning you only need 1 support.

Sacrifice is a damage spell. If you keep your pets up for their spawn cooldown then it is a infrequent damage spell, but you can get around that with the build I'll post.

<a href="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#bTXfjS!XbV!YZZYab">http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#bTXfjS!XbV!YZZYab</a>

Indigo on your dogs for damage absorb. Makes your dogs a better supporting skill; allowing you to use one less support skill.

Crimson on Sacrifice to increase the damage. Obvious buff is obvious.

Crimson on the Zombie Charger because bears are cool. Just damage, doesn't really matter what you pick, maybe there is a spell I missed that would work better.

Indigo on the Firebomb for aoe. Needing aoe.

Alabaster on the Mass Confusion to spawn more dogs. Makes Sacrifice a better damage spell, because you can replenish quicker. Baiscally cuts down your Sacrifices pseudo cooldown by half. Plus adds a crowd control skill.

Golden on Swarm to give you mana. Need mana regen.

Zombie Handler to increase to 4 dogs and give health buff. More dogs, more damage, more support, more sacrifice damage.

Spiritual Attunement to for mana. Gives you mana you need because you only have one mana regen spell.

Fierce Loyalty for dog damage. Dogs become a better damage spell.

Sacrifice still isn't quite spammable, but if you get the timing right you should be able to most things on per encounter. If you keep your dogs alive from the last encounter you can; sacrife in the begining, spawn new dogs, do some damage spells, sacrifice your dogs, cast confuse (get more dogs from it), more damage spells. End encounter with your four dogs and repeat.

I think you should also keep in mind that we don't know what the range in abilities modifiers will be on items. They might come into play.
Edited by Epicurus on 9/23/2011 9:18 AM PDT
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Posts: 135
For example with something like this http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#cQPhTZ!UXe!aZbZZa

I can initiate the 160% spell buff cycle when my summon zombie dogs is about to come off CD and keep the buff rolling while retaining the benefit of having the 4 dogs out to assist

There are no dogs to dispose of in your build.
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Posts: 206
Well.. It has been tested, played for about 4 month by the internal tester at blizzard. I'm not confident that one guy in a forum reading a tooltip could find a design flaw. Sorry. But it's nice to read and see different build and idea.

PS: I was in the game industry business for 5 years

I doubt that.
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I read in another thread about skill switching and a blizzard guy said its not going to be allowed during the pvp fights. and for pve you can only do it while in town ( not likely imo, more like out of combat i think ).
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Posts: 205
hmmmm what about the idea of using mass confuse and an alabaster rune to get the dogs this way you get a spammable crowd control spell and a constant way to get dogs in one spell? that way you would be killing two birds with one stone... well hopefully you would kill more than two birds with sacrifice but that is another thread...
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87 Dwarf Priest
Posts: 1,163
09/25/2011 03:33 PMPosted by Takillas
hmmmm what about the idea of using mass confuse and an alabaster rune to get the dogs this way you get a spammable crowd control spell and a constant way to get dogs in one spell? that way you would be killing two birds with one stone... well hopefully you would kill more than two birds with sacrifice but that is another thread...

Mass Confuse isn't spammable, it has a 60 second cooldown.
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Posts: 621
09/21/2011 07:11 AMPosted by Damoklese
Unless of course you have to KEEP the spell\s in your bar in order to keep the buff.. which is entirely possible.


It already works like that for Monk Mantras.
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Posts: 9,090
Pretty sure the sacrifice is more intended as a Cooldown nuke, i hate to make a comparrison... but like a warlock in WoW. Sacrifice pet to get a bonus for a bit of survival/damage then afterwards u can get ur pet back up.

^ Pretty sure it's ment to mimmic that kind of gameplay for either pvp or pve.
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81 Dwarf Warlock
Posts: 596
If you've played the game at BlizzCon you will have seen that you are only allowed to switch skills you've taken with Tomes of Relearning. I was able to loot one and change one of my skills to Firebats, which at the time was not one of the sanctioned spells to be used for Witch Doctor. One of the guys walking around was actually surprised to see me using it, and stopped over my shoulder for a second to ask how I got it. I quickly responded that I'd "managed to find a Tome of Relearning" (the name of the item might be slightly off, it was last year so I don't remember. But it was an uncommon rarity tome that let you retrain a skill) and he seemed surprised, possibly insinuating that the drop rate isn't easy to come by. It also had a casting bar much like crafting. I was able to use it in the dungeon, and did not have to go back to town, however. (You weren't actually allowed to go to town anyway, so if going to town is required in launch, it may have just been turned off for the demo.)

Either way, the likelihood you keep the buff if you drop the skill is about next to impossible. Blizzard has NEVER allowed that in almost any of it's games and I highly doubt it will be as such with this.
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Posts: 115
I agree completely with 'they should remove the increased damage effect from sacrifice entirely'

40% per dog is far, far to good to pass up.

Why would anyone pass on a 160% increase on their spells.

Essentially it means every build will have these skills worked into them, as well as the passive zombie dog handler. Otherwise they will be severely out-dpsed by their witch doctor peers who do decide to use this.

It has to go.
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