Diablo® III

Attacks per second and slow speed items

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If I understand the question correctly, the damage of a skill modified by weapon damage is based on whatever weapon you happen to be swinging with when using the skill.


What about something like Hammer of the Ancients, which doesn't seem to use either of the weapons? Does it add up both?

Or maybe Whirlwind, which says it attacks once every 0.4 seconds? Does it attack with each weapon that often, or just one of them?

Does cleave use 1 weapon then the other and so on? Or both at once?
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Community Manager
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What about something like Hammer of the Ancients, which doesn't seem to use either of the weapons? Does it add up both?

Or maybe Whirlwind, which says it attacks once every 0.4 seconds? Does it attack with each weapon that often, or just one of them?

Does cleave use 1 weapon then the other and so on? Or both at once?

We asked the developers about these situations last week and got a clear answer. Unfortunately, among the multitude of other answers we got, I forgot this one and don't have the information handy right now. ^.^

I'll try to save room for following up on this tomorrow when I'm back in the office.
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Zarhym your the boss.
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85 Human Death Knight
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Zarhym is awesome
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Does cleave use 1 weapon then the other and so on? Or both at once?

We asked the developers about these situations last week and got a clear answer. Unfortunately, among the multitude of other answers we got, I forgot this one and don't have the information handy right now. ^.^

I'll try to save room for following up on this tomorrow when I'm back in the office.


My friend, go sleep!
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Uh, FYI: Most skills scale with weapon speed as well. So yes, if you get a bigger, slower weapon, you do more damage with each cast of your skill...but if you have a faster weapon, your skill fires off faster and you can use it more often.

So no, there is still a place for fast weapons.

Higher damage is always better. You get a ton more damage on high resource skills, and the lower cost skills will end up costing you a lot less to do the same amount of damage. It is dumb to have every skill in the game based on weapon damage.
Edited by Xeridea on 9/22/2011 9:32 PM PDT
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i gotta say, with my interest for the monk and the videos force made, im seriously curious to know more about dual-wielding.

the monk animation when using deadly reached didint change with the weapons and was actually independant of it (the monk had the wep in hand and then in his back when doing combos)

so it gets me wondering if the off-hand weapon is anything more than a stats stick and wether or not id attack faster from having two weapon versus "alternating" between both.

please zarhym, we need answers (well i know i do). figuring dual-wielding is mind blowing for me right now
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And this guy gets a blue post? Rly? I thought Blizzard preferred people use the search option before posting new threads =P


Haha, at least we are the number crunchers he's referring to. I'd bet that more than one Blue has looked through or kept up to date with our thread :D
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So, when dual wielding, if your attack damage bonus from an ability is based off the weapon in the hand that does teh next swing, then you could theoretically, figure out which ability is best used on which weapon swings?

Also, if i'm to understand this correctly, if youdon't want to get into the nitty gritty, for pretty much all abilities based on weaon damage, it would just be easy enough to look at the dps of a weapon and decide which is better? if it doesn't matter how fast the weapon is or how much damage it does per attack, weather the next attacking is laced with an ability or not, the higher the dps the weapon, the higher the dps of the constant ability casts are going to be.

^^ i hope the incoherant paragraph makes sense to others.
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86 Worgen Rogue
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From now on we must refer to Zarhym by his new diablo name: Zarhym the Ratboiler, the man who tames scavengers to bring him large rats... and whom you slaughter mercilessly in act I >.>

When we get into the beta we can start an: "I killed Zarhym" Thread.
Edited by Hellzrogue on 9/22/2011 10:48 PM PDT
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100 Gnome Warrior
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Uh, FYI: Most skills scale with weapon speed as well. So yes, if you get a bigger, slower weapon, you do more damage with each cast of your skill...but if you have a faster weapon, your skill fires off faster and you can use it more often.

So no, there is still a place for fast weapons.

This is correct. The way the systems are currently set up, whether a player dual wields or uses a two-handed weapon mostly comes down to item quality and personal preference. The number crunchers among you will surely find the most effective choice for a given situation, but the difference is still pretty slim when the item quality/attributes are comparable.




09/22/2011 09:08 PMPosted by Zarhym

Speaking of Dual Wielding, do skill percentages combine the damage from both weapons, or just use the one in main-hand?

If I understand the question correctly, the damage of a skill modified by weapon damage is based on whatever weapon you happen to be swinging with when using the skill.


Taking these two quotes and watching how it played out in the beta videos so far, there was one glaring issue. One I think that you guys will probably address if you aren't already addressing--this system is absolutely terrible for DH hatred. Each shot requires X hatred and until you have fundamentals your attack speed has no bearing on your regen of hatred. This leaves you with the ability to a) pace yourself and do far, far more damage or b) shoot 3 shots and then use !@#$ dw crossbow damage. From what we've seen so far it simply did not work with the way the hatred resource worked. The monk builds spirit (and does so quickly with DW--and will do so quickly with 2h w/guardians path too) and the barb can cleave quicker (and w/golden rune generate significantly more fury) and that solves the speed to power problem nicely. The WD / Wizard don't really have resources or speeds where they are concerned about weapon speeds, but this does come into play with how DH currently plays--and while fundamentals seems like an obvious choice for any DH build because nothing seemed to come close in the calculators / builds to generate that kind of hatred, if it's forced than it's not really giving the DH 3 passives.
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I'm sure they will sort it out
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Community Manager
Posts: 2,549
I love how this guy jacks my thread:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3196391067

11 pages of people going back and forth, conversing with math and numbers to break down skills and skill modifiers. People playing beta and testing it and really putting a lot of work and effort to find out just how things work exactly.

And this guy gets a blue post? Rly? I thought Blizzard preferred people use the search option before posting new threads =P

We haven't discussed the combat mechanics in much detail before. I chose this thread because it allows me to talk and share more about combat systems in general, whereas your thread focuses purely on the barbarian. I'm hoping, in this thread, I can continue to field some of the more basic questions on how combat works for each class. It's another busy day at the office tomorrow and the weekend approaches, but I'll keep tabs on this. :)

P.S. We strongly prefer players don't seek out blue posters and tell us where we should be focusing our spittin' and flowin'. We respond to what we can when we can, and hopefully in a way that's beneficial to the community, given those restraints.
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Posts: 312
This is the first time in awhile I've been optimistic about a solution to this all-too-common problem.

Attack Speed/Resource Generation hits the two biggest problems with DW vs. 2h: the extra cost of doing the same damage as 2h when you DW, and also the extra time it takes to do that damage. They've already laid the groundwork by eliminating static cooldowns for the Fury Spenders and for Frenzy, which is the most important Fury Generator for a DW build. The AS/RG approach could therefore work out as long as they get the math right. But that's a pretty big thing for a video game to do - getting this problem to a point where it's *just* a math problem, and not a math-plus-everything-else problem.

There will still be differences, but I'm not sure they'll be game-breaking in terms of overall damage dealt. 2h builds will get the edge with other Fury Generators and damage-dealing Situationals that have a static cooldown, but DW will, ostensibly, get more crits per minute and will get a higher chance to proc rune-based effects on its abilities (since they're hitting them 2-3 times more frequently in the same span of time.) So yes, Earthquake will definitely be a better choice for a 2h build. But golden hammer, or obsidian threatening, or (my personal favorite) alabaster Battle Rage could end up favoring DW pretty heavily.

Granted, Frenzy v. Non-Frenzy (or even Bash/No Bash) still presents a tradeoff between burst and ramp-up, and maybe DW's absolute reliance on Frenzy means that that's still a DW vs. 2h problem. But still, this does sound quite promising.

That is the one area I'd look at though - is DW going to be absolutely ramp-up/sustained, while 2h has the option of balancing that approach with the burst approach more effectively? That might be the one thing that still encourages people to go 2h: flexibility between ramp-up and burst that DW doesn't have.
Edited by Karrow on 9/22/2011 11:51 PM PDT
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Higher damage is always better. You get a ton more damage on high resource skills, and the lower cost skills will end up costing you a lot less to do the same amount of damage.


This.
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