Diablo® III

The two biggest issues with Diablo 3

Posts: 124
So you're sad that you won't have the chance to PK people in Diablo III? I'm sad that you enjoy ruining other people's play experience so much, and that you needed to ruin other people's play experience in order to "feel alive."
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100 Troll Mage
13730
Posts: 936
09/27/2011 02:31 AMPosted by Jurkaleen
cmon dude. get over d2 already and get ready for a new experience.


Say that to the friends that we have to leave out of our D3 game because there are more than 4 of us.

Blizzard, ever heard of a game called Day of Defeat: Source? That game just DIED after they changed the player limit from 64 to 32. There was a proper "balanced" way to play, none of the maps were balanced or designed for 64 people, and it was total chaos with no semblance of strategy or sanity, but none of that mattered because that's not what people wanted. The chaos created from shoving twice as many people into a map as it was designed for was just fun. You've already admitted you're not too concerned with making a balanced, competitve game, so why do you care whether 8 players isn't balanced? So what if the game lags or the client isn't optimized to display so many characters or spell effects? People with older computers lag in SC2, but you didn't limit that game to 4 players in custom modes. If players only want to play with 4 players, add a server option. Heck, make a ranked mode that has a 4-player limit and let people play unranked up to 8 or 10.

Look at the PC FPS genre. Not the emulated console FPS genre, I mean the real PC FPS genre. Server options solve everything. Server options are how you please everyone. You know that whole thing about how you can't please everyone? That's when you make choices for everyone. Let them make the choice and everyone will find one they like. Look at all the mods, you did for SC2. You let people make all sorts of tweaked melee modes with the SC2 editor, why can't D3 support something as simple as some server options?

Just try to imagine the drama going on in my WoW 5-man group having to leave someone out when we play D3.

On the PK issue: server options.

The PK community in D2 was only a very small portion of total players. It seems big if that's what you're involved in but I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of people who bought D2 just played singleplayer or co-op. However, there should be an option to allow open PvP.
Edited by Dreyfuss on 9/27/2011 7:07 AM PDT
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Posts: 276
09/27/2011 06:59 AMPosted by Dreyfuss
Just try to imagine the drama going on in my WoW 5-man group having to leave someone out when we play D3.


Look on the bright side! He might be able to find new friend to play and, when one of more of your group is unable to play, can bring new friends to your group!
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Posts: 508
Say that to the friends that we have to leave out of our D3 game because there are more than 4 of us.

Blizzard, ever heard of a game called Day of Defeat: Source? That game just DIED after they changed the player limit from 64 to 32. There was a proper "balanced" way to play, none of the maps were balanced or designed for 64 people, and it was total chaos with no semblance of strategy or sanity, but none of that mattered because that's not what people wanted. The chaos created from shoving twice as many people into a map as it was designed for was just fun. You've already admitted you're not too concerned with making a balanced, competitve game, so why do you care whether 8 players isn't balanced? So what if the game lags or the client isn't optimized to display so many characters or spell effects? People with older computers lag in SC2, but you didn't limit that game to 4 players in custom modes. If players only want to play with 4 players, add a server option. Heck, make a ranked mode that has a 4-player limit and let people play unranked up to 8 or 10.

Look at the PC FPS genre. Not the emulated console FPS genre, I mean the real PC FPS genre. Server options solve everything. Server options are how you please everyone. You know that whole thing about how you can't please everyone? That's when you make choices for everyone. Let them make the choice and everyone will find one they like. Look at all the mods, you did for SC2. You let people make all sorts of tweaked melee modes with the SC2 editor, why can't D3 support something as simple as some server options?

Just try to imagine the drama going on in my WoW 5-man group having to leave someone out when we play D3.


This is a really intelligent argument because D3 is an FPS. Oh wait....
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90 Human Paladin
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Posts: 66
09/27/2011 06:59 AMPosted by Dreyfuss
Just try to imagine the drama going on in my WoW 5-man group having to leave someone out when we play D3.


And just try to imagine the drama going on in a WoW 10-man raiding guild having to leave someone out when they play a game that only allows 8 people in one game. Or a 25-man raiding group.
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Posts: 276
Just try to imagine the drama going on in my WoW 5-man group having to leave someone out when we play D3.


This is a really intelligent argument because D3 is an FPS. Oh wait....


Luckily, not all of my CoD team will want to play D3... and we'll probably manage to make 2 groups of 4 with other friends... Sounds like fun! Wait... yes! You can bring your friends in the game and form two groups! What a brilliant... difficult to find... idea.
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Posts: 611
Blizzard, ever heard of a game called Day of Defeat: Source? That game just DIED after they changed the player limit from 64 to 32.


Major difference I see here is they changed the game thus breaking it... d3 is an entirely NEW GAME, so it wasn't broken by changing the player limit, since the player limit was always 4 (from beta on so far).
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Posts: 118
First issue: Not able to go hostile in Diablo 3.

Why wouldn’t you let us go hostile? What is this reason? You feel like it’s too hardcore to be able to hostile someone whenever you want?

I feel that that thing alone made Diablo 2 a much better game than the competition, to be able to go hostile whenever you wanted to.
It made the game feel, no it made me feel alive, a feeling I never ever experienced in any other game till this day.
I were one of those hardcore player killers (top ranked in Europe), so I had to watch out for myself all the time, I were a wanted man. We PKs had those damn PKK after us ;) . And now you are removing that from the game? How are you guys at blizzard thinking?



I agree with you 100%
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Posts: 118
First issue: Not able to go hostile in Diablo 3.

Why wouldn’t you let us go hostile? What is this reason? You feel like it’s too hardcore to be able to hostile someone whenever you want?

I feel that that thing alone made Diablo 2 a much better game than the competition, to be able to go hostile whenever you wanted to.
It made the game feel, no it made me feel alive, a feeling I never ever experienced in any other game till this day.
I were one of those hardcore player killers (top ranked in Europe), so I had to watch out for myself all the time, I were a wanted man. We PKs had those damn PKK after us ;) . And now you are removing that from the game? How are you guys at blizzard thinking?


Again.. I agree with you 100%. The option should be there. Them not giving us the option is ridiculous. If when you made a char, either flag that char for Pvp or PvM, and even if your in a game a PvM char made, we could still battle.


I agree with you 100%

you seem to think diablo3 should be a copy cat of diablo 2. i wonder why is that. like people ragging because they didnt make runewords in d3. cmon dude. get over d2 already and get ready for a new experience.

as to try to convince you that pvp arena is better than free for all hostile i would just say that the only difference is that now you cannot kill someone who doesnt want to pvp (aka harrassing him).


No I want it to succeed, to be a better game then Diablo 2, and I don't believe the game will be more fun with less players in it per game then D2 had. Actually I would like to see maybe 16 players per game. To only allow 4 players per game is ridiculous. Not even all 5 classes can be in the same game.
But you maybe prefer to not be able to play together with your friends in the same game..

Well there should be an option to flag games or characters for PVP/PK when you make them, that people can "harass" you anywhere you go in game..
Shouldn't just totally remove that option, that was a really bad move by Blizzards part. Because of this I lost my identity in Diablo 3..And I want it back!
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100 Troll Mage
13730
Posts: 936
09/27/2011 07:02 AMPosted by Achilles
This is a really intelligent argument because D3 is an FPS. Oh wait....


It's a game. Some things are good ideas in every genre.

09/27/2011 07:03 AMPosted by Zosimas
Just try to imagine the drama going on in my WoW 5-man group having to leave someone out when we play D3.


And just try to imagine the drama going on in a WoW 10-man raiding guild having to leave someone out when they play a game that only allows 8 people in one game. Or a 25-man raiding group.


Yup, exactly. However the odds of all 10 people in a raid being interested in D3 is much lower than half of them. I can actually name 3 more people that would probably play with us, so 8 would be the perfect number. I would settle for 5 though. Also, if there are 5 classes what sense does it make for it to be impossible to see all of them in one game?
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70 Orc Shaman
1650
Posts: 35
09/27/2011 06:57 AMPosted by Sunrunner
So you're sad that you won't have the chance to PK people in Diablo III? I'm sad that you enjoy ruining other people's play experience so much, and that you needed to ruin other people's play experience in order to "feel alive."


It was the same rules for everyone that played Diablo 2, if you didn't like it, that someone could come and kill you anytime, Diablo 2 was probably not the game for you. It's simple as that. Or you could go password protected games to be safe :) (chicken^^).

09/27/2011 06:59 AMPosted by Dreyfuss
Say that to the friends that we have to leave out of our D3 game because there are more than 4 of us.


Yeah worst decision ever to only allow 4 players per game, how where Blizzard thinking :S?
It's not fun to leave most of your friends out of the game.

09/27/2011 07:02 AMPosted by Achilles
This is a really intelligent argument because D3 is an FPS. Oh wait....

Nothing wrong with his arguments.
Edited by Muspk on 9/27/2011 7:24 AM PDT
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Posts: 508
Yup, exactly. However the odds of all 10 people in a raid being interested in D3 is much lower than half of them. I can actually name 3 more people that would probably play with us, so 8 would be the perfect number. I would settle for 5 though. Also, if there are 5 classes what sense does it make for it to be impossible to see all of them in one game?


Well, Blizzard is known for not quality testing their games so I'm sure they apreciate your valid input and will definitely consider 5 or 8 person games now.
/sarcasm off

Seriously, do you think they have not tested this to death? At some point it was agreed that 4 player games felt like the best and most fun way to play the game, so they designed the game around that fact. But I suppose you enjoyed D2 the most when you were 1 of 7 players and you got to stand their during the Baal run while the geared hammerdin solo'ed him.
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100 Troll Mage
13730
Posts: 936
09/27/2011 07:08 AMPosted by Tony
Blizzard, ever heard of a game called Day of Defeat: Source? That game just DIED after they changed the player limit from 64 to 32.


Major difference I see here is they changed the game thus breaking it... d3 is an entirely NEW GAME, so it wasn't broken by changing the player limit, since the player limit was always 4 (from beta on so far).


Well the argument wasn't about changing the player limit, it was that the player limit should always be as high as possible with the option to lower it if your connection can't handle that many players. We know SC2 can handle 14 players with way more going on. I doubt one hero with 6 abilities and a bunch of items is really that much harder to keep track of than 14 players with 200+ units with their own weapons, abilities, statistics, potentially separate orders for each of them, etc.

It's an arbitrary limit. If Blizzard just wants to keep things balanced, use the ladder character system from D2. Ladder characters cannot make or join games with player limits over 4. We wouldn't mind playing unranked.
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Posts: 245
The four person per game thing doesn't bother me, there not being world PVP DOES bother bother me.
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70 Orc Shaman
1650
Posts: 35
09/27/2011 07:14 AMPosted by CrAzyrAge
These are not issues.


Maybe not for you, but for other people they are, this thread alone is a good example of that..

Yup, exactly. However the odds of all 10 people in a raid being interested in D3 is much lower than half of them. I can actually name 3 more people that would probably play with us, so 8 would be the perfect number. I would settle for 5 though. Also, if there are 5 classes what sense does it make for it to be impossible to see all of them in one game?


Exactly! Not even allowing 5 characters per game when there is 5 different classes...
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Posts: 23
Muspk, I do agree a hostility option would be nice, however, I think the 4 player limit has more a practical reason behind it. I think the decision is to ensure that the RMAH is not abused. Consider, balancing difficulty and rewards for 4 players is far more manageable than 8+ players. With 8 people one could stack classes or ensure that each class' is present, thus allowing for difficulty in some or perhaps all situations to be dramatically reduced.

As ridiculous as it sounds, it would not surprise me that once a powerful combination of classes/moves are found that players will create specific groups stacked with magic find to farm items to sell in the RMAH. Even with 4 people there can be class stacking and or optimal farm groups. 8 classes could present an issue that could quickly spiral out of control. The major factor is that now there is incentive to form such groups since one can possibly make money off items.

edit: To clarify, all that I typed is mere speculation on my part, but RMAH is a giant feature that if implemented needs to be handled as perfectly as possible in order to keep the game sane.
Edited by Maculo on 9/27/2011 7:27 AM PDT
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Posts: 508
Yeah worst decision ever to only allow 4 players per game, how where Blizzard thinking :S?
It's not fun to leave most of your friends out of the game.


It's been said before, but I suppose it needs to be said again. Diablo is not WOW. There is not a raid night where you and you're 10 friends get together and all game for 6 hours straight.

It is a casual game. A game where you can pick it up and play anytime, for any length. In a way it encourages more of your friends to play because of the less strignant demands. If you want to have that game night where all 10 of you get together and game for 6 hours straight, D3 may not be for you.
Edited by Achilles on 9/27/2011 7:25 AM PDT
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70 Orc Shaman
1650
Posts: 35
09/27/2011 07:19 AMPosted by Achilles
Seriously, do you think they have not tested this to death? At some point it was agreed that 4 player games felt like the best and most fun way to play the game, so they designed the game around that fact. But I suppose you enjoyed D2 the most when you were 1 of 7 players and you got to stand their during the Baal run while the geared hammerdin solo'ed him.


Or you could make a game where a class can't solo act bosses alone :). Where you need at least 8 active people to bring the boss down.
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Posts: 118
Muspk I love your thinking.
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