Diablo® III

Unattuned Runestone System not Feasible

09/28/2011 07:00 PMPosted by Iceybaby
Um, if you don't like the skill you get then remove the rune until you find another...


Assuming you can goto the mystic and retry, thats good....unless it costs a GD fortune.

And you still have the problem of a ridiculous # of runes to try different skills.
Try reading the OP, the current implementation cant work.

No it can work just fine. As long as the rune drop rates match the probabilities, it can work just as well as a system without the randomness. Who says there has to be any cost? We don't know any details yet. It could be completely free to remove the rune. You may not need a mystic at all. These decisions wouldn't be made without accounting for the variability of the system. Your entire argument revolves around X, Y, and Z all happening when they can easily change Y and Z to work with however they choose X to function.
Reply Quote
A straight rune system basically means everyone gets their runes and uses them forever, and never needs more. This is why we're seeing Blizzard trying to make runes a bit more interesting, with affixes and/or random chance.


Not necessarily. If runes drop with color, but have random affixes, people will constantly be looking for a set of runestones that works better for their AoE build, then a set for their Boss build, thenfor their PvP build, then for their MF character , then their DPS character, and so on.

If you view it like that, and look at how we can respec, you'll have players who have one of each class perhaps, and each character will have several sets of runestones for various builds, and that means it will take a long time for a player to get exactly what they want. However, since the color of a player's runestones would not be the limiting factor, the fundamental way the player's skills work will not be such an issue.


I really like this idea. Screw the unattuned system. Give me runes with lots and lots of random affixes just like items and I'll be happy.

Like, they drop as their color just like they're gonna be, but they don't have their affixes yet. When you socket them they roll their affix and that's the gamble you make. You still get the rune you want for the skill you want and so you get the desired skill you want. But now you gotta decide to reroll it for +attack or +resist or +%weapon dmg etc...

You get the best of both worlds. You get randomization, you get min/maxing, and best of all it it's not frustrating.

Seriously, +9,001 to this system!
Edited by Shibumi on 9/28/2011 7:07 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Having all my skills picked randomly is not a good system....its retarded.


And claiming that having to attune your runes is the same thing as having your skills picked randomly is simply not true. Especially considering that rank 1 runes will almost certainly be cheap and plentiful. You can try all the skills in all their different forms with rank 1 runes for next to no effort; they'll just be better with rank 7 runes, but the mechanics won't change.


And then spending YEARS to try different skills at max rank is also retarded.


YEARS? Really? I bet you that you could find 5-10 high-rank runes in a night if you really wanted to. At this rate, you could try all the skills at max rune rank you wanted in less than a week, even if you were unlucky. And remember, you don't HAVE to try them at max rune rank, either. So this point is meaningless as well.


And then you have to stash you inventory full, + mules, just to try those skills later.


So you're going to packrat away one of every single rune just for later, instead of counting on the fact that you'll find more that you can attune later? I sure won't packrat like this. Diablo has never been too friendly to packrats anyway. At least you have a shared stash now. Regardless Unattuned runes might stack pretty high, too, you know.
Edited by Nekora on 9/28/2011 7:09 PM PDT
Reply Quote
60 Gnome Warlock
960
I am happy with the town only skill swapping, I don't care if it remains or not but I am glad there is some sort of limiting factor coming into play
Reply Quote


On a slightly related (?) note we're playing around with having skill swapping locked to being in-town only. We're definitely not sold on it, but it could appear at some time in a beta patch, so FYI. Just be aware it's only something we're trying, and not a permanent solution.


I hope blizz stick with this one. Be proud to what you have put in the action bar. This will definitely make hardcore even more hardcore.
Reply Quote
So if I want to make all 5 toons, where do I keep the ~600 runes.
Assuming they drop like free candy like you badly assume.
You don't keep 600 runes. You deal with having limitations to your flexibility.
Reply Quote
Perhaps, but the moment something becomes annoying you've already eliminated a lot potential problems as most players wouldn't want to deal with the trouble. I think the key is that already you've significantly cut down any edge that player would gain vs. a person who simply uses a good, balanced build. If they want to put up with the trouble to cut off a few seconds of a half hour run then that is their decision.

The main reason I support the idea is that it corrects for the split in Blizzard's design which simultaneously tells players you should switch your skills however you like and you should make tough decision and pick just 6 to keep for play. Having to go back to town clearly indicates to players that their skills are meant to be a more rigid part of the character.


I see what you're saying, but I disagree that your suggestion provides a strong enough deterrent. If we want to limit customization and make skill decisions more meaningful, I would add a skill switching cool down of thirty minutes to one hour. This would mean that in a dungeon, a player would have to save her skill switch for the boss, effectively achieving the "semi-permanence" you desire, while allowing players to respec to accommodate a boss.

However, I personally would love starting a dungeon using arcane, switching to lightning halfway through, then to fire. I think that's perfectly fine, not game breaking, and allows for variety and experimentation.

Either way, as long as we can respec, I'm happy. It's a question of whether I am happy or happier. Lol.

As far as what I've heard from beta testers, some say that they felt the skill system would be gimp, but once they played the game, they appreciated it. And that's a swap-as-you-go system. O_o
Reply Quote
09/28/2011 06:27 PMPosted by Bashiok
On a slightly related (?) note we're playing around with having skill swapping locked to being in-town only. We're definitely not sold on it, but it could appear at some time in a beta patch, so FYI. Just be aware it's only something we're trying, and not a permanent solution.


I really like being able to test new skills as soon as I get them. If this is implemented, could you maybe set a 2-5 minute timer after we level during which we can change our skills wherever we are to test the new skill? This would give enough time to test the skill and decide if we are going to keep it or switch back. Going back to town every level to test a new skill seems like a total waste of time but after this short timer I would not mind the need to go back to town to switch skills.
Edited by Chaarlie on 9/28/2011 7:11 PM PDT
Reply Quote

No it can work just fine. As long as the rune drop rates match the probabilities, it can work just as well as a system without the randomness. Who says there has to be any cost? We don't know any details yet. It could be completely free to remove the rune. You may not need a mystic at all. These decisions wouldn't be made without accounting for the variability of the system. Your entire argument revolves around X, Y, and Z all happening when they can easily change Y and Z to work with however they choose X to function.


So if I want to make all 5 toons, where do I keep the ~600 runes.
Assuming they drop like free candy like you badly assume.


Your numbers are off. You have a more than 50% chance to get all the colors you want for all 5 characters with less than a quarter of those. You are not expected to amass everything you need ahead of time either. Blizzard doesn't provide you enough space to amass all the gear needed for all of your characters for levels 1-60 so why would they give you enough space for runes?
Reply Quote
09/28/2011 06:52 PMPosted by Blazur
On-the-fly skill swapping rewards players with quick fingers and detracts from the challenge of playing the game. Unless you argue high APM skill swapping adds to the challenge. I see it as a chore.


Easy solution. Disallow on-the-fly skill swapping. I recently read a blue post saying there will be definitely and absolutely no on-the-fly skill swapping.

So don't worry about it. The issue is, do we go back to town to swap, or do we do it in-field during a lull in battle?
Reply Quote

I see what you're saying, but I disagree that your suggestion provides a strong enough deterrent. If we want to limit customization and make skill decisions more meaningful, I would add a skill switching cool down of thirty minutes to one hour. This would mean that in a dungeon, a player would have to save her skill switch for the boss, effectively achieving the "semi-permanence" you desire, while allowing players to respec to accommodate a boss.

However, I personally would love starting a dungeon using arcane, switching to lightning halfway through, then to fire. I think that's perfectly fine, not game breaking, and allows for variety and experimentation.

Either way, as long as we can respec, I'm happy. It's a question of whether I am happy or happier. Lol.

As far as what I've heard from beta testers, some say that they felt the skill system would be gimp, but once they played the game, they appreciated it. And that's a swap-as-you-go system. O_o


You could be right. People might do it anyway. I would be willing to accept a greater restriction but I am trying to avoid suggesting anything that has significant opposition in the community.
Reply Quote
Community Manager
As a follow up, there's no concept of 'in combat' or 'out of combat' in the game, so that's not something we can just hook in to. There could be. We could take programming time dedicated to other features and design and build out a 'combat state' system, but that's programming time away from something else.
Reply Quote
09/28/2011 07:00 PMPosted by Shibumi
The problem IS people who are switching skills IN COMBAT.


No, that's exactly not the problem. I'll have to find the blue post where I think it is who Bashiok says that the D3 team specifically DOES NOT want people switching IN COMBAT. Thus, that is already a non-issue.
Edited by sparrow on 9/28/2011 7:17 PM PDT
Reply Quote



Your numbers are off. You have a more than 50% chance to get all the colors you want for all 5 characters with less than a quarter of those. You are not expected to amass everything you need ahead of time either. Blizzard doesn't provide you enough space to amass all the gear needed for all of your characters for levels 1-60 so why would they give you enough space for runes?


Ahh no, that is ~600 Rank7 rune/skill combinations from all the characters.

if you play D3 for any amount of time, I am sure most will play every toon.

Where do these players but all those runes?

Your numbers are still off. With 6 skills, 5 runes per skill (67% chance of getting the color you want) -> 30*5 = 150 runes at the very most. (Characters have enough inventory space to hold their stock of 30 runes so you don't even need the shared stash)

Again, Blizzard doesn't support packrats. If you want to amass all of them you'll need to find a way to do it yourself because Blizzard doesn't support that mentality. The AH exists for a reason. Unless prices change significantly (which if anything they shift to be cheaper in the long run which is in your favor) you can sell the extras and buy them back when you need them and possibly earn a profit in the process.
Edited by Steveman on 9/28/2011 7:19 PM PDT
Reply Quote
you level up and you have to go all the way to town to check or use skills? that sounds horrible considering you dont get stone of recall till like level 4-5ish?
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Paladin
2180
Ahh no, that is ~600 Rank7 rune/skill combinations from all the characters.

if you play D3 for any amount of time, I am sure most will play every toon.

Where do these players but all those runes?


your not supposed to have every rune for every skill.. you need to make choices as to what skills you will get runes for ..and level 7 runes may sell for quite a bit of rm.. so even if they are 5$ a rune.. your really asking where can i store my 3,000$ worth of runes
Reply Quote
09/28/2011 07:17 PMPosted by jjordanpope
you level up and you have to go all the way to town to check or use skills? that sounds horrible considering you dont get stone of recall till like level 4-5ish?

That's part of the reason why I support the Nightmare and Hell only rules.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]