Diablo® III

Demon Hunter Design Issues

Posts: 1,513
That's the sad thing about DH in the Beta: You don't reach full potential with ANY characters, but DH feels it most because all of the best abilities are higher up on the ability tree, while at least most of the other characters have a few bread-and-butter skills they can use at decently low levels (ala cleave, Plague of Toads, Electrocute, etc.)

However, while DH may not have near as much raw power as any of the other classes, it seems that they have a lot more versatility in simply the way their skills work. I mean, the differences between entangling shot, evasive shot, bola, etc. are negligible in some aspects, but insane in other situations.

I mean, evasive shot is better for general kiting than entangling. However, say you are in a tight room and don't have much room to bounce backwards to, or that you have other allies that need your CC to help keep the monsters off of them. Entangling shot suddenly has a lot more viability despite its lower damage, now doesn't it?
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
0
Posts: 214
If Entangling Shot does apply damage to all 9 targets with Chaingang, then thats a lot of potential damage per hit. We'll see how things change as the beta progresses.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,813
do you gain hatred when hitting with a hatred generator or just for using the hatred generator? Maybe evasive fire has a high hatred generation because less shots are being fired compared with other generators. Evasive fire has a flip backwards which means evasive needs a higher generation rate when compared to hungering arrow that shoots has fast as your weapon speed. And if you receive hatred every time one of your generators hits a target spells like hungering arrow and entangling shot are actually better because they are hitting multiple targets compared to the flipping induced slower evasive fire. Evasive fire also uses discipline when you flip.

This system is very new and is likely to see quite a bit of changes, i wish i was in beta and knew first hand how everything worked
Reply Quote
Posts: 12
If we are talking optimal builds the OP post still holds true. Evasive fire as far as I can see is the best choice for versatility, hate generation and damage.
If you put an Obsidian rune in it, it becomes the hardest hitting hate generating ability... unless i'm missing something. (I am aware that this requires a back flip)

In regards to loosing disc as a result of the back flip, that can be mitigated with an Alabaster rune in MS or through preparation if you urgently need a boost of disc.

this is my build here. I mostly had PVP in mind with this build but personally cant find a weakness in it for PvE.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#YSZdka!WeU!cZcabc
Reply Quote
85 Troll Druid
3535
Posts: 415
I guarantee that golden hunger arrow will not pierce 95% with no limit to the number of pierces.

If we are talking optimal builds the OP post still holds true. Evasive fire as far as I can see is the best choice for versatility, hate generation and damage.
If you put an Obsidian rune in it, it becomes the hardest hitting hate generating ability... unless i'm missing something. (I am aware that this requires a back flip)


I don't know if you read any other posts, but the OP doesn't hold true. The OP states there is no point in using anything other than EF. There's been plenty of evidence to say why yes, EF is fantastic, but isn't the only choice. We've been laying out situations in which EF is favorable and in which others are favorable.

I agree that obsidian does awesome damage; but I'm not going to use it as a primary damage ability. You dismiss the fact it requires a backflip, but that part is key because it prevents it from being a primary ability.
Edited by Dahippee on 9/28/2011 6:32 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 13
I never said there is no point in using things other than EF. I said that EF would be your primary generator and others would be situational generators (except Strafe, which is worthless unless you want to use rockets).

I don't know if I still agree with that, but please don't put words in my mouth :P
Edited by StrixVaria on 9/28/2011 6:40 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,128
The would be places where back fliping is not an option, and also other where AOE damage or multi target abilities are mandatory, so maybe for the first levels EF will hold as the must efective but once we have higher level runes and bigger mobs we will move on, into Entangling, bola or hungering
Reply Quote
85 Troll Druid
3535
Posts: 415
Ok, point taken. I amend my statement to say: you said there would be no point in using anything else as a "primary generator" which is false. Of course the definition of a "primary generator" is up for grabs.
Edited by Dahippee on 9/28/2011 8:18 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,274
I disagree. First, I don't think it's a design issue (especially considering the data we have is still only half-designed). Evasive fire's particular utility is a great situational tool, but it doesn't make every other skill bland or pointless.

Runes are a big game-changer that you're disregarding in your theory. Current runes are obviously going to change since some of them still reduce the hatred cost of some generators, but already some runes give other skills a ton more damage than evasive fire. Other sort of utilities like snares are also sometimes much more effective than a backflip: some enemies are going to walk so fast they won't even notice you moved out of range for half a second.

Plus, some players just don't like the lack of control you have over the backflip. It always triggers when an enemy is in close range, and there's no way to pick the direction it goes. You could realistically evaside fire yourself into a corner before long.


Sure, it's an awesome ability ... but it's not so overpowering that the other generators are made useless by it. At least wait until passives and runes are adjusted to the new hatred system before drawing conclusions.
Reply Quote
Posts: 230
I plan on using Evasive/Backup as my main Hatred generator.

Get in the middle of a pack, hit evasive, drop a bomb and auto-vault out, vault back in and repeat. 500% WD is nothing to laugh at, especially when it seemingly comes so cheap. Next group of mobs will be facing a bulb full of Hatred and can be taken down with whatever skill I see fit.

Sounds fun! :)
Edited by HRP on 9/28/2011 11:34 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 12
09/28/2011 06:14 AMPosted by Dahippee
I don't know if you read any other posts


I have read all the posts and was referencing.

09/27/2011 10:45 AMPosted by Dahippee
you'll note that the damage of hatred generators is huge


In which you had pointed out that the damage of hate generators is a major factor in a rotation. I was trying to say that with backup plan EF can potentially contribute more damage (and this is also AOE) in any rotation that includes it, even if only 1 back flip is used. Remember that EF is the highest hate generation bar Fundamentals which would mean more MS or Impale in your rotation or in a shorter period of time.

09/28/2011 06:14 AMPosted by Dahippee
You dismiss the fact it requires a backflip


I never dismissed that fact. When I put it in brackets I was trying to suggest that, I was aware of the restrictions and was trying to imply the above. But I can see how it could easily be misinterpreted i implied too much lol.

This looks like we are in different time zones... long time to wait for a conversation in. Australia here.
Reply Quote
Posts: 89
Evasive Fire and Entangling Shot as primary abilities? Please, spare me such low dmg dealing skills. Fact is Fundamentals is the fastest Hatred generator there is at 15 per shot AND do +100% more dmg. If we are talking about coolness factor, shooting regular arrows w/ Fundamentals is boring(unless Bliz changes the graphics, which would be cool), but considering dmgwise, Fundamentals is such a powerful passive that it's almost like combining Evasive Fire + Entangling shot together with regard to dmg and equal to hatred generation(no, not the utility - backflip, slow). I hear many a persons talking about including Evasive Fire or Entangling Shot in their builds; I wouldn't even put in my PvP build. (BTW here it is http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#adRQkT!XcU!aaYbcZ).

Evasive Fire has crappy dmg, so does the Entangling Shot and runes don't do much to make it even close to what Fundamentals do. Yea, I agree it's boring, but I would rather spam my basic attack with constant Impale (+358%dmg w/Crimson Rune) and Multi-shot(+330%dmg w/ the same rune) than try and prickle monsters with slow and, by gosh, flipping away(that's for what the Vault is).
Here try this PvE for size:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aSdUQk!XU!ZacbYZ
Reply Quote
Posts: 230
10/05/2011 07:13 PMPosted by Dred
Fact is Fundamentals is the fastest Hatred generator there is at 15 per shot AND do +100% more dmg.


I wouldn't plan on Fundamentals sticking around exactly like it is, what with the change to all the abilities.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]