Diablo® III

another skill swapping thread

What we know:

- skill swapping on the fly leads to !@#$ed up playing and so forth

what we want to avoid:

- any skill swapping limitation that requires the player to do anything tedious; such as going to town, waiting for an excessive amount of time, using any stupid items... We also want to avoid Blizzard wasting time on a unnecessary in/out of combat system.

what i suggest:

- make it so that an individual cannot swap skills if they have dealt damage in the past X minutes, been dealt damage in the past X minutes, or are under the beneficial effects of one of their spells. X would be open for debate of course; i vote for 2minutes.

the two things this accomplishes:

1. players cannot skill swap during fights since avoiding taking damage for a solid two minutes, while also not dealing damage (pet damage too), should be impossible. If they can avoid that for 2minutes, then heck, they either deserve the praise for skill or they've isolated themselves from the threat somehow.

2. If a player levels up and immediately wants to swap out their skills, they only have 2 wait 2 minutes. This would be a perfect amount of time to go to the bathroom, grab a snack, make sure the other living creatures in the house haven't died... whatever. They could even use this time to think over what skill they want to get rid of for the new one. OR they can just wait for the quest to end and then they'll probably be back in a safe zone where they'll spend 2minutes selling/salvaging/craft/whatever.
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Posts: 321
This + the current 'skill-swap in town' would be a wonderful system.

However I would prefer it to count in seconds rather than minutes. 30-60 seconds after dealing and/or receiving damage you can begin swapping skills. But let's say you level up and want to change things around and not worry about a mob coming out of nowhere just recall back to town.

Edit:
Overall I see it as an easy, quick, and overall GOOD solution. +1
Edited by InDusTry on 10/26/2011 5:47 PM PDT
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Posts: 169
That's actually a good idea.

Me like.
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Posts: 1,945
I think until lvl 30 you should be abel to swap freely when out of combat. By that lvl you had the chance to test all skills already, so after that lvl you should start getting some "punishment" for swapping skills.
I think it would be nice to add a cooldown to swapping that scales with lvl: at lvl 30, 0 cooldown; at 31, 1 minute cooldown; 2 at 32..and 30 and lvl 60. Talking in time spent inside the game with that char. Always out of combat.
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85 Human Priest
5790
Posts: 93
I prefer Dzyan's suggestion of a cooldown to swapping skills over the suggestion of an external influence to whether or not you can swap skills. The cooldown could be two minutes and be fine, but I've already seen situations in the various videos where it would be nice to switch a skill mid-fight.
From what I've seen of videos on youtube though, if you have two minutes to dink around, you can easily get to town. Getting to and from town didn't strike me as all that tedious.
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Posts: 1,893
I think that skill swap in town is just perfect. Anything else will make it so that you wont have any commitment to your build.
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10/26/2011 05:54 PMPosted by Dzyan
Always out of combat.


there is no "out of combat" in Diablo 3, right now. I don't think anyone out there wants blizzard wasting time on making such a system either. Blizzard has said it would be difficult to implement such a system and if WoW is any mark of the quality of the in/out of combat system, it tends to be rather obnoxious and buggy.


10/26/2011 05:59 PMPosted by Jaroth
but I've already seen situations in the various videos where it would be nice to switch a skill mid-fight.


but that's not the point. skill swapping mid-fight is what Blizzard doesn't want people to do. it takes away from the smooth combat-focused aspect of combat and makes min/maxing an obnoxious hassle a lot of people will feel is necessary to progress well.

you can't simply tell people to not min-max either, if the option is available. For such people it's as much of an annoyance to have to min-max in an unwieldy manner as it is to not min-max when it's available. the only win situation is to make the skill swapping easy (not possible with the way D3 is) or to not allow the min-maxing and make people commit to a set of skills in combat.

This + the current 'skill-swap in town' would be a wonderful system.


as long as the skill-swapping in town still requires you not to be under the benefit of any personal spell. we want to avoid what you can do in beta right now with casting some self-buff spell, swapping the skill out, and still maintaining that buff.
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90 Worgen Hunter
10340
Posts: 229
I have posted this idea in a previous thread but here goes again.

As I understand it the current problem with the skill swapping is that people are playing with the window open and just swapping skills in mid fight.

The simplest solution to that problem is to not allow you to move or use skills while the window is open. This is not a game pause, you can still be attacked and killed while you have the window open. This solution does not require any kind of in or out of combat system and puts it on the player to find a safe location to swap skills without the need to go back to town.
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Posts: 1,945
10/26/2011 06:13 PMPosted by kukulza
there is no "out of combat" in Diablo 3, right now. I don't think anyone out there wants blizzard wasting time on making such a system either. Blizzard has said it would be difficult to implement such a system and if WoW is any mark of the quality of the in/out of combat system, it tends to be rather obnoxious and buggy.


Well, it's not something that happens very offten...but if you know you want to change your skills, then you can decide to stay out of combat for a few seconds. Should take almost the same time than it takes you to go town and swap there...
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Posts: 586
Considering that they've eliminated the need to go back to town to sell garbage loot, and avoided it for rendering items into crafting materials, I don't see having to return any time you want to switch up your skill set as that much of an inconvenience. Afterall, the townspeople will get lonely if you don't visit them every once in a while.
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Posts: 575
I have posted this idea in a previous thread but here goes again.

As I understand it the current problem with the skill swapping is that people are playing with the window open and just swapping skills in mid fight.

The simplest solution to that problem is to not allow you to move or use skills while the window is open. This is not a game pause, you can still be attacked and killed while you have the window open. This solution does not require any kind of in or out of combat system and puts it on the player to find a safe location to swap skills without the need to go back to town.


This may still be too easy to use in combat with things such as vault, frost nova, etc. If you're good you can definitely swap a skill in ~2 seconds, it doesn't seem too hard to take minimal/no damage in that time. If you're skill swapping I assume it's because it'll make a big difference, so a small loss isn't a big issue.

I like this concept, but it needs some heavier restrictions. Perhaps you can't open your page if you've recently moved/used a spell, or a brief "character lock" even after you close the book? Something else is needed imo.
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43 Night Elf Druid
560
Posts: 2,563
I think until lvl 30 you should be abel to swap freely when out of combat. By that lvl you had the chance to test all skills already, so after that lvl you should start getting some "punishment" for swapping skills.
I think it would be nice to add a cooldown to swapping that scales with lvl: at lvl 30, 0 cooldown; at 31, 1 minute cooldown; 2 at 32..and 30 and lvl 60. Talking in time spent inside the game with that char. Always out of combat.

I agree with this.
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Posts: 267
what we want to avoid:

- any skill swapping limitation that requires the player to do anything tedious

ok...

what i suggest:

- make it so that an individual cannot swap skills if they have dealt damage in the past X minutes

Err, what?

So how is sitting on my hands for some odd minutes less tedious than making a quick trip to town? If they would think of going for that, then Blizzard might as well implement a combat flag system, anyway. And if they do go that route, it shouldn't be more than say.. 20 seconds, I would think. The idea is just to discourage skill swapping while you're kiting around some pack of mobs or dodging a boss.

Quite honestly, I think the skill swapping being locked to town is not a bad option at all. It might be a little frustrating in the early levels when we're picking up new skills quickly.. but later on I don't think we'll notice much. The decisions will become much more involved as we balance our decisions on how all 6 chosen skills work with each other and then decide on what runestone effects we want to slot.
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Posts: 139
i think a more simple solution to thems people that dot like skill swaping, dont use the system at all then. just stick with your first 6 active and first 3 pass skills, then you have nothing to gripe about at all, or just dont play the game
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Posts: 139
i like being about to swap skills any time you want to, haveing that ability is better then not haveing it, like i said b4 you dont have to swap skills if you dont want to, but dont force every one else to play that way you want them to
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Posts: 139
i dont know about you mind less people but i dont want to play a game were other people force me to play a game acording to what they see is "best" you know it use to be 7 active skills at once, now its 6, you see thats the restiction in case you dident notice at all. if you want less freedom that why not ask the game creators for only 4 active skills at once, or 3 or 2 or 1, or how about no skills at all at that point, first of all, dont talk about a system that you dont fully understand. i can immagin 3 active skills be useless, for witch doctors or any class, you dont like the system ask them to put the old point system back in, dump all your points into one thing and just use it only,

as for me im glad the new system let me use all the skills i want to, last blizz con the point of the system was "not to restick or punish the player for useing his or her skills" this year every single post iv seen about this skill system is to punish every one that want to play the game the way they want to,
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90 Gnome Mage
5910
Posts: 873
I think until lvl 30 you should be abel to swap freely when out of combat. By that lvl you had the chance to test all skills already, so after that lvl you should start getting some "punishment" for swapping skills.
I think it would be nice to add a cooldown to swapping that scales with lvl: at lvl 30, 0 cooldown; at 31, 1 minute cooldown; 2 at 32..and 30 and lvl 60. Talking in time spent inside the game with that char. Always out of combat.


This deserves its own post. Awesome idea. Also, the devs have pointed out that the game doesn't have a way to track "in" and "out" of combat right now.

Cool downs do not require such tracking and already exist in the game. The system its self seems perfect for allowing players to learn everything, be able to change things around in the future, but be encouraged to not be constantly swapping stuff around at the highest levels.

Good mix of flexibility, balanced with pushing people to adopt something while they are playing to keep combat continuous without skill swapping all the time.
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