Diablo® III

Monk passives

I feel like the monk has a lack of offensive options from his passives and feel that some of his passives would never be used. Beacon of ytar and exalted soul seem to be his only real options for gaining offense from his passives and ontop of that i see like 2-3 passives i think people wouldnt really use or i consider them extremely weak compared to the others.

The Talent's Resolve, The Guardians path, Fleet Footed, Chant of resonance, Trancendence and Guiding light Should some how be combined or removed entirely to make room for a couple more offesnive passives to give people some more options. I know that the Monk class strength is supposed to be its defense and utility which is cool but in a game that revolves around farming id like to see this class have some more options for offense
Edited by streygo on 10/30/2011 9:44 AM PDT
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3NkFxpb4hI&feature=player_detailpage#t=1523s

You can see from the video they are still working on the passives, they showed a new one for Monk called Combination Strike which increases your damage when using multiple spirit generators.
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ah yea forgot about that, step in the right direction i guess. Id still like to see some of the ones i mentioned get reworked,combined and or removed.
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Posts: 74
I couldn't agree more. One of my main beefs with the Monk is his lack of clear offensive passives.

In general I think most classes need a few more passives (or for existing passives to be made more powerful and interesting).

In particular, with the Monk though it feels like we have too many defensive passives:
Resolve - Damage you deal reduces enemy damage by 10% for 2.5 seconds.
The Guardians Path - While dual-wielding you gain a 10% chance to dodge incoming attacks. (staff portion cut out)
Transcendance - Every point of spirit heals you for 42.6 life.
Seize the Initiative - Defense increased by 25% of your attack.
Sixth Sense - Your dodge is increased by 50% of your critical hit.
One With Everything - Your resistance to all elements is equal to your highest resistance.

Though I don't include it in this list, Near Death Experience is also worth mentioning, it just functions very differently than the others and doesn't really apply to the point I'm about to make.

Anyway, in this list of passives we have some really nice, exciting abilities. However, we also have some that seem to overlap and we definitely have too many raw defense talents.

"But Mface, that's silly! How can you have too many? More choice is always good!"

Choice is always good, I agree but the problem we have right now is that many of our choices function in similar ways or fulfil the same purpose and therefore end up competing with each other.

As a few examples:
Resolve and the Guardians Path (when dual-wielding): The first reduces damage taken by 10% and the second increases dodge chance by 10%. The difference between these is pretty minimal. What I mean by this is that from a defensive stand point reducing damage taken by 10% equates to roughly the same amount of damage prevented over time as 10% dodge (assuming all melee). The prime difference is that, assuming you hit the target attacking you Resolve will effect spell damage where the Guardians Path will not. The Guardians Path on the other hand can help you trigger on dodge effects.

That having been said, the two aren't distinct enough to really warant having both ESPECIALLY when we consider how many other defensive talents we have. If I wanted to go for a pure Defensive build for example, why would I choose these two over any of the other good defensive passives, in particular why would I choose it over Seize the Initiative or Sixth Sense? Both provide a similar bonus, at this point it's just a numbers game. is 25% of my attack added on to defense going to save me more damage than Resolve will? Based on the answer to this, I know which one to take. The problem is similar between Sixth Sense and the Guardians Path.

Another problem is that some of our defensive passives don't have meaningful synergy. Take a look at some of the things we can do when we dodge.

What I'm talking about here is Mantra of Evasion with a Crimson Rune- whenever we dodge we deal a certain percentage of weapon damage to the opponent>

This makes dodge builds (and hence dodge based passives) very appealing for a certain type of build. However, even on these forums you don't see many DW builds picking up the Guardians Path because most dodge builds want a slower harder hitting staff to maximize the weapon damage they get out of the Mantra of Evasion with a Crimson Rune. Beyond that, not many people seem to be taking resolve - it doesn't really have meaningful synergy with any of our abilities or other passives, and just has too much competition in raw defensive builds for us to look at it given how uninteresting it is at the moment.
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Posts: 74
In short, we have too many defensive options which are just too similar and often without meaningful synergy.

Suggestions
Resolve: This talent just isn't really all the interesting, especially when we consider it does for us stuff that we can get in other passives. I'd suggest reimagining it entirely:
Something like "when are hit in combat, genererate X spirit". Would be useful in certain non-dodge based defensive builds and is something we could pick up for general offense to boot.

The Guardian's Path: Convert this passive into something offensive, perhaps 5% crit while dual-wielding. Given the competition for defensive passive slots and the synergies available I just don't see the dodge feature being interesting or strong enough to compete with other passives. Alternatively it could become an on crit proc, something like "when you critically hit while dual-wielding you have a chance to gain X% attack speed, stacking up to X times."

Seize the Initiative and Sixth Sense: These two are based on a very interesting idea, defense from offense and stylistically I really like them. My issue with them is that when I take one I really feel like I should take the other (unless I'm building an expressly dodge based build built on the Mantra of Evasion Backlash combo I mentioned). Given that we only have three passive slots and that these really feel like a pair, I would combine the two passives and rebalance the numbers for them to work properly as such.

This isn't the only issue our passives have though, we also have some problems with our offensive passives:

The Guardian's Path (when wielding a staff) - Increases spirit generation by 20%. Pretty decent for a staff build depending on what you want to do with the build.

Chant of Resonance - While a mantra is active gain 1 spirit per second. So... Basically just gain 1 spirit per second. Honestly feels pretty boring and, 1 spirit per second really isn't much in a game as fast paced as Diablo. Furthermore it may just encourage me to wait between encounters in order to rush in with full spirit and burst everything down which really isn't what the game is about. I feel this needs to be reworked into something a little more useful. As is I only see this taken when someone is trying to generate a SUPER spirit build and they've run out of other applicable passives.

Exalted Soul - Increases max spirit by 100. Okay, well now I can use twice as many spirit spenders as long as I spend twice as long generating the spirit. My issue with this is despite being an offensively oriented talent it doesn't actually increase your dps/damage over time. It increases your burst potential yes, but really lacks that "KAPOW!" I want out of my passives (especially given that I only get 3).

Guiding Light - Whenever you heal another player both you and the other player deal 16% additional damage for 10 seconds. This is a very interesting skill and it's hard to tell exactly how it works just yet if, contrary to the tool tip it activates when you heal yourself as well as other players than it works in just about any offensive build. If it only works when you heal another player it's less universal but still useful in many builds. Good passive either way, but I think a lot of Monk players want something they can use while soloing.

Beacon of Ytar - Fantastic passive. Useful in a wide range of builds but not so useful that it dominates every offense focused build.

So for offensive passives our issues are with: Chant of Resonance, Exalted Soul and not having enough given how situational some of the others are.

Suggestions
Combine Chant of Resonance and Exalted Soul. Remove the part about it only being effective while a Mantra is active. So in other words a new passive that increases your max spirit by 100 and causes you to generate 1 spirit per second.

Replace the old Chant of Resonance with: For 20 seconds after activating a Mantra gain double the effect. (I know it's been mentioned they'd like to make something like this baseline for Mantras, they could keep it like this or let this talent make the "double effect" period last twice as long).

With my suggestions:
-Our defensive passives clash with each other a little less.
-The Guardians Path goes from being a half-offensive to a full fledged offensive passive. -Resolve goes from being a boring, reptitive defensive passive into being a conditional defensive and offensive passive depending upon build.
-Chant of Resonance and Exalted Soul are combined taking two underwhelming offensive passives and turning them into one decent offensive passive.
-We are down one passive, one which I'm certain can easily be replaced.
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Something i think would be cool is a massive offensive increase passive but with a defensive penalty

quick example

Increases all damage dealt by 50% But you cant Increase your magic resistance beyond 0 and all physical damage taken is increased by 15%
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Posts: 74
Streygo I can understand why that might seem like fun but I think people would start to ignore it pretty quick. As a melee class the Monk just wouldn't survive that kind of durability hit in higher difficulties. Also, I would think 50% damage would just be far too much for that kind of passive, even at a significant survivability increase.

If you're into damage at a cost I could see something more like "20% increased damage at the cost of 20% spirit generation".

It would still be a fringe skill, but builds with few spirit spenders might get some use out of it.
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The thing is the monk has so many other ways to improve his defense like Breath of heaven, serenity,runed inner sanctuary, lethal decoy blinding flash etc etc. You would just probably have to give up taking damaging spirit spenders in exchage for better better damage on your spirit generators
Edited by streygo on 10/30/2011 12:06 PM PDT
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The monk doesn't have very many offensive passives probably because there are so many skill and rune combinations that boosts the monk's damage. I mean just look at Crippling Wave w/ Alabaster, Breath of Heaven w/ Obsidian, or Mantra of Conviction.
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Posts: 74
My impression is that we'll need at least 1 or 2 of the defensive passive to stay alive in Inferno without the 15% cut (more against spells) to our survivability.

It works with the Wizard because they have the tools to not get hit, they can survive in that world via kiting and trickery.

The Monk on the other hand needs to get hit occasionally by virtue of being in melee.

The monk has a lot of creative untapped potential with passives. I'd really rather see something that opens up build options and the "Glass Cannon" idea really doesn't for the Monk.

We really need some clear cut offensive abilities to compliment some existing builds, beyond that we could use some new passives to promote new builds.

Here are some examples that I think would be neat and potentially have the synergy to inspire new builds:

Inner Spirit: You deal 20% more damage, but generate 20-30% less spirit.
Allows for builds that rely on more spirit generators but fewer spirt spenders, for example, you might choose to take 3 spirit generators instead of the standard 2, or you may choose spirit spenders which you need to use less frequently such as mystic ally.

Brilliant Aura: For 20-30 seconds after activating a Mantra, you retain the benefit of any other mantra you were using beforehand.
In this way, players would be punished less for taking more than one Mantra and really opens up some additional build diversity.

Resilient Spirit: Doubles the duration of conditional buffs/debuffs received from abilities which provide a buff or debuff your enemy.
Many duration based buffs from runed abilities feel just slightly too short. There's a lot of builds on the forums based on stacking all kinds of synergies together based on these abilities but they just don't work when you start thinking about the amount of set up required. This would enable builds to better take advantage of things like Static Charge (Obsidian - Fists of Thunder), Keen Eye (Alabaster - Deadly Reach), Foresight (Crimson - Deadly Reach), Breaking Wave (Alabaster - Crippling Wave), Concussion (Obsidian - Crippling Wave), The Flesh is Weak (Obsidian - Exploding Palm), Sweeping Wind (with any rune), Blazing Fists (Obsidian - Way of the Hundred Fists) - I'm certain there are more in the spirit spender section, suffice to say you would be able to make stronger builds by stacking more of these for longer, probably at the cost of certain spirit spenders thus opening up a variety of new builds. (These builds are floating around the forums already but my suspicion is that they aren't practical enough for legitimate in game use).

Before I continue with ideas I'd like to note: I feel the monk is lacking in the department for critical hit synergy. That is to say that I'd like to see the possibility of a crit focused build as opposed to an attack focused damage build.

That having been said, we need more offensive passives in general before we toss in crit specific passives otherwise nearly all offensive builds will just focus on critical hits.

Anyway, on with some more passive ideas:

Aggressive Leader: When you critically hit with a melee attack, heal the nearest ally/allies who are low on HP based upon the damage dealt.
This is intended to be an alternative to some of the other healing focused monks rather than a straight addition to the current "Super Healer" monk. The idea would be to maintain the feel that the Monk is healing, but he's a little less dedicated to it than other monk healer builds - with this passive he's more about offense, but he's happy to sneak some healing and survivability in where he can for his parties sake.

Cunning Combatant: Each time you critically hit an opponent increase your critical hit damage by 5%, stacks up to 5 times. Buff lasts 3 seconds.
It's hard to say what stats will be like later in the game but I think it's safe to say keeping the buff rolling will not be likely. The goal of this would be to give Monks a good reason to go for a crit build without overshadowing a normal damage build to badly (that having been said we would need more in the way of standard offensive passives).

Combo Master: You gain the ability to use all of your spirit spenders as 4th hits in all of your combos. Increasing the attack speed and damage of spirit spenders by 20% when used immediately after the third hit of any of your standard combos.
Edited by Mface on 10/30/2011 1:08 PM PDT
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10/30/2011 01:06 PMPosted by Mface
Combo Master: You gain the ability to use all of your spirit spenders as 4th hits in all of your combos. Increasing the attack speed and damage of spirit spenders by 20% when used immediately after the third hit of any of your standard combos.


Not sure I get what this means. All the spenders are instant cast to begin with, increasing their attack speed wouldn't make any sense. Damage though I would understand and that would be awesome.

Now if there was a passive that allowed the 4th hit of any of your combos to generate a free spirit-spender, that would be all types of awesome...and overpowered :x
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Posts: 74

Not sure I get what this means. All the spenders are instant cast to begin with, increasing their attack speed wouldn't make any sense. Damage though I would understand and that would be awesome.

Now if there was a passive that allowed the 4th hit of any of your combos to generate a free spirit-spender, that would be all types of awesome...and overpowered :x


As is combos end at 3. Yes you can use a spirit spender immediately after a combo, but the suggested passive you are talking about would simply give you a bonus on 1 spirit spender when it was used as the fourth hit of any given combo. Attack speed makes fine sense. In the same way as if I had 20% attack speed from gear, except only the fourth hit of a "combo" is affected by it.

So it would look like this:
Spirit generator hit 1 -> Spirit generator hit 2 -> Spirit generator hit 3 -> Spirit Spender (20% faster and deals 20% more damage)

Right now it works like this:
Spirit generator hit 1 -> Spirit generator hit 2 -> Spirit generator hit 3.
Spirit Spender.

Yes, it happens in quick sequence, the only purpose of the passive is to make it feel a little more fluid as though we use 4 hit combos instead of 3 hit combos.
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Posts: 74
We still seem a little short on passives so let's just brain storm some new ideas for passives.

Personally, I'd really like to see a few more passives which open up new build possibilities rather than supplement existing builds.

Strength of Soul:
When you activate a Mantra you gain a special bonus for the first three seconds. Double the duration of this bonus.
-I will admit I can't think of too many build options this opens up, but I'd like to see some better passives to boost the utility of our Mantras.

Flurry of Blows:
You gain a 20% chance when you strike a target to make a free attack at 100% weapon damage against a nearby target.
-Opens the way for more heavily attack speed based builds. You'd want to pick the faster spirit generators and try to attack as frequently as possible rather than as hard as possible.

Weakness to Strength:
100% thorns damage. When hit by a spell / elemental effect you have a chance to absorb it and unleash it's power with your next spirit spender. (the effect triggered by unleashing it would probably based on the element used in the attack, wouldn't be anything ridiculous just a little bonus every now and then when fighting spell casters).

Concentration:
Each spirit generator you use increases your armor by 10% (up to a maximum of 100%), when you use a spirit spender you consume this bonus and reset your stacks but deal extra damage equal to the percentage of armour granted to you by this passive.
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Posts: 163
This had been mentioned in a similar thread a month or two ago but the monks mostly all defensive passives seems weak when looked at individually, however, once you look at the bigger picture they give more than is visible at first glance. Because they key off of your offensive stats you are able to exclusively itemize for damage knowing you get "free" defensive bonuses from them. Other classes will need to spend item slots to maintain survivability at hell/inferno. The monk can spend his three passives and never need to itemize for survival.

Seize the Initiative - Defense increased by 25% of your attack.
shooting from the hip i figure 1000 attack at level 60 will not be abnormal. Monk gets a free 250 Defense.(rank 14 ruby = 100 attack)

Sixth Sense - Your dodge is increased by 50% of your critical hit.
Again estimating a 20% crit also becomes 10% dodge.(rank 14 emerald = 100 precision)

One With Everything - Your resistance to all elements is equal to your highest resistance.
Instead of having different resist sets, max one resist and fear no magic.
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Posts: 1,859
To add to Wizerdee's post, don't forget that defensive passives allow for offensive gear choices. For One With Everything in particular, I wouldn't be surprised if there were unique items with massive boosts to a single element. If resistances are completely covered in one or two items, that means the rest of the slots can be pure offense: crit, attack, and such.
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@MeowZiDong: I think with the monk they should find a way to combine one with everything and seize the initiative. I don't think it's asking for too much considering perfectionist on a DH is ridiculousness.... Barbs, even down to their main attribute were created to survive and do major damage. These passives being combined IMO would not be unfair to other classes considering monks and barbs are the only melee attackers, and these passives are essential to, and used by pretty much every monk. Just something to consider for the future improvements
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@Atkinson403 - Nice Necro
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here's how the passives are supposed to be and what's missing. :<
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7922983686?page=2#24
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Posts: 7,266
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7wVEAgVPi8

Your new name Atkinson403, is now McFly.
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honestly guardians path adds alot to ur dps if u use a 2 hand wep.
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