Diablo® III

Inferno Isn't going to work as intended

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10/28/2011 09:12 PMPosted by MortQ
Why not just make the boss's loot table scale upward by some factor of the total kills this session; rares and elites having larger factors?


I like this idea. Some sort of triggered event every time an elite or champ dies in the act that causes the boss to drop better loot. Possibly even make him stronger as well to add more of a challenge.
10/28/2011 09:49 PMPosted by KoNKer
I for one am glad that I can find great drops playing through an entire act rather than just killing the boss and remaking the game. +1 for blizzard.

/Amen
Much like politics majority rules. The majority does not like running bosses to farm items. Blizzard proposed a good solution that most people like. So the minority that does not like it can just not play no one cares because blizzard can not please everyone and the majority is more important. There is nothing to really debate about this. My opinion is I like the idea of playing the game instead of farming bosses.
I've been playing Dark Souls recently, and one feature that I think is a good idea and could work in a game like Diablo is the anti-farming code: the more a player kills the same monsters in one area the lower their drop rates and xp awards.
So, running through a zone twice in an hour would award full xp/loot both times. Subsequent runs would have a 10% stacking reduction to a minimum of 60%. The xp would be reset to 100% every hour or two and 135% every two days.
This would be calculated in such a way that each regular mob would have a point value -- with bosses having much higher values. If 23% of the zone's average total point value was used, 23% of the 10% penalty would be applied.
This could be done on a per zone or monster type (counting palette swaps as the same type) basis.

This sounds like a good idea too. Blizzard almost always makes good decisions which is why their games are always good, but people just love to wrongly criticize every possible thing they do.
So give bosses nonfixed locations (skeleton king in act 3 in a random nonboss room!)
And with randomized abilities (skeleton king is randomly lightning enchanted!)

???

Is this really so hard?

So let me get this straight... to make killing bosses less tedious and formulaic at higher difficulties, you want the devs to change their spawn locations to being random as well as giving them random abilities to make them unique and more challenging than other normal mobs in the area.

You.. you do realize this is what they've already done with the Rares and Champs, yes?
Edited by Pesty on 10/28/2011 11:04 PM PDT
85 Blood Elf Warlock
10145
10/26/2011 10:53 AMPosted by Cheesy
So blizzard is trying to encourage us to do more randomized content. If I want to kill bosses to get my loot shouldn't I be able to? Why penalize players who want to run bosses as well as random content why not make everything equal?


they arent penalizing you. the bosses will always be there, in the same place. you have to go out looking for the rares monsters. its a trade off. duh
One thing to mention is that, currently in the beta the first time you kill the Skeleton King, he gives out 1-3 legendary items, but then every time after that, he instead give 1-3 rares most of the time. If this is something we can expect to see on all bosses, then it's very likely that bosses will actually give you the best loot in the game...the first time you kill them. After you've taken the end boss once, only then will you be encouraged to go champion-hunting.

So, don't worry, you'll still be seeing killer loot from bosses, it's just that you won't be able to/forced to farm that killer loot over and over and over again.
10/29/2011 01:12 PMPosted by AgentPaper
out 1-3 legendary items, but then every time after that, he instead give 1-3 rares most of the time


Just a correction on terminology.

On first kill he has a good chance of dropping RARE items. Subsequent kills he usually just drops MAGICAL.

I believe there is only one legendary in beta: Griswolds Sword

Grey = Trash
White = Normal
Blue = Magical
Yellow = Rare
Orange = Legendary
Edited by Ham on 10/29/2011 1:28 PM PDT
Exactly. (@ignorant assumption that Act 1 mobs will have easier mechanics than Act 4 mobs)

What credentials do you have that prove that?
Edited by TopWesker on 10/29/2011 1:44 PM PDT
10/28/2011 02:17 PMPosted by Bashiok
So blizzard is trying to encourage us to do more randomized content. If I want to kill bosses to get my loot shouldn't I be able to? Why penalize players who want to run bosses as well as random content why not make everything equal?


The purpose is devaluing boss runs, not making them pointless. I guess you could make the argument that anything beyond what is most efficient is pointless, which isn't totally wrong, but there's still plenty of grey area.

Bosses have fixed locations, and fixed mechanics, these two basic truths mean for very formulaic gameplay. Formulaic gameplay leads to formulaic builds to best take advantage of them, and as much as some individuals might like the repetition, we don't believe they're healthy for what we intend to be a diverse character landscape.

Character and build diversity is not only built by the mechanics and systems that create a build, but also what challenges those builds face that make them viable or not viable. You can have an awesome character customization system with tons of complex systems that feed into infinite character customization, but it doesn't mean anything if the content that the character is facing doesn't challenge it and validate the choices that were made.

Rares and champions tend to have either partially or completely randomized locations and affixes. We believe that making it less of a formula, and using the Diablo-centric randomness to drive the end-game gameplay as well as item drops, it will mean for a more compelling and diverse experience, which is simply going to be more interesting for more players. We expect that a huge chunk of people that buy Diablo III will never make it to Inferno, but that doesn't mean we should punish the people who do with boring and repetitive avenues for acquiring drops. The formulaic nature of bosses will ensure that they are the goal for item runs unless we devalue them, and so that's what we're going to try out.

I will also say that we don't think Inferno is the end-all solution to creating an exciting end-game. We're pretty sure it will be a great improvement, and excellent first step, but it's still quite a ways away from a true end-game content solution. We hope to be able to share some of the other thoughts we have post-release.


I agree with this %100 and i'm glad blizzard is doing this. Boss runs are incredibly repetitive and boring, at least this way the replay value of the game will last much longer and be enjoyable. This leaves room for more excitement while playing, imho.
Just need to take a look at Day9's Wizard run.. normal difficulty, exploring a lot. Almost dies a couple times.
First was the "all heil the new arcane" enchanted.. But then he came across a yellow zombie, cold enchanted. Same result, almost killed.
Now imagine getting ambushed in Inferno, maybe 3ple enchanted fat zombie will be the one to bring you down, not a BOSS, where you always know what to expect.

Used to do (Diablo2), Icy Cellar & Nilathak runs with my firesorc to grind & MF.. and because I was TIRED of Baal - Pindle - Baal - Pindle - Mephisto - Andy.

It will be all about the random encounters now, and I personally think it's awesome.
Edited by maurotyler on 10/29/2011 6:33 PM PDT
90 Human Priest
7210
"Your gana love my nuts"
10/28/2011 02:17 PMPosted by Bashiok
I will also say that we don't think Inferno is the end-all solution to creating an exciting end-game. We're pretty sure it will be a great improvement, and excellent first step, but it's still quite a ways away from a true end-game content solution. We hope to be able to share some of the other thoughts we have post-release.



i am very happy to see blizzard will actively try to find new and exciting things for players to do after the story line. It was a big reason why i would quit playing the other diablo games. The diablo playing life span for me was to think of a cool character build, create and level the character, get all the gear needed for the build, pvp(because there really wasnt anything else to do,i enjoyed it however)and quit until i thought of a new character or i was bored.

If there were more fun things to do and more ways the player could progress at endgame there would be less people quiting and cycling like in the other diablo games. I think blizzard has learned a lot with World of warcraft and its end game to create a fun never ending end game for diablo 3 and im very excited for that.
I think hunting for champions and rares is going to be more boring than doing boss runs.

I know when i finished Diablo 2 I couldn't stand doing any of the normal content anymore because I just hated roaming around hoping to find stuff.

It's sort of a band-aid fix to me, like making champions and rares drop the best items is a band-aid fix until they can figure out real end game content for the game.

A lot of people speculate that there's going to be a secret level in the game(some pinnacle of pony thing with unicorns and ponies and rainbows and crap) that I imagine on Inferno will probably have a lot of champions and rares in it.

But we need real end game content, certain dungeons and such with special monsters that are a tad stronger than inferno mobs and have better loot drops.
85 Tauren Druid
8000
I dont see how farming is at all a problem considering there is an auction house where people who are serious enough about wanting the best gear can just buy it in a 100th of the time. Why is their a concern, it won't affect the lives of others unless you plan on doing some pvp, which with a random gear system there will always be someone with better gear than you. You have played through the game for 3 difficulties already, im sure the need to do it a 4th time to visit the bosses is no all that important. Inferno is the endgame, where the need to play through the story line finishes and freedom to do what you want opens.
85 Tauren Druid
8000
What I would like to see is some sort of gear label that lets people know you have "Inferno" gear, just like heroic gear on wow. Inferno bosses should have a much bigger variety of possible loot drops some with extremely low (like ridiculously low .001%), that way if encouraging people to do inferno bosses was such a concern it would be easy, as people want this stuff. Drops like rare non sellable/tradable aesthetics, people will still hunt rare monsters, but will farm bosses to get in game aesthetics that not many people will get.
Too late, and too tired to read through the hole thread, so perhaps someone has already said this, but sorry, you're just plain wrong.

A monsters level does not determine its drop rate, it may very well have an effect on its drop rate, but the first few mosters in the first act will not have the same drop rate as monsters in the later acts, or as bosses/champions ect.

e.g. a lvl 61 zombie may have a 7% drop rate with say 15% chance of that being magic a 5% chance of rare and a 0.5% chance of that being legendary. Where as say a lvl 61 Boss may have a 35% drop rate with a 60% chance of that being magic a 25% chance of being rare and say a 1% chance of that being legendary.
There fore a boss or champion or later game monsters will still have a better chance at better drops.
(these are all made up figures, just putting that out there)

As I say, a monsters level may effect its own drop rate, but that does not by any means imply that all monsters of the same level will have the same drop rates. Each and every monster will have its very own set of drop rate statistics, and in that, its own statistics for the quality of those drops.
Edited by FiveLitre on 10/30/2011 6:38 AM PDT
10/26/2011 10:58 AMPosted by Cheesy
You are assuming that act 1 inferno mobs will share the same mechanics as act 1 normal mobs. I think that's probably not a good assumption to make.


no i'm not.

Jay also said that things like monster awareness will be boosted for later difficulties.

But theres only so much you can do to make a slow zombie difficult.


You could certainly make it go faster =)
10/27/2011 12:36 PMPosted by Nazárid
There's so much constantly repeated bad info going on in these sorts of threads.For example, people keep re-iterating that every mob in inferno will have the same level, which is very likely wrong.


Like this one... It has been said over and over by the game designers that all monsters will be level 61 none below none above.

Maybe you should actually listen instead of thinking you are an all mighty know it all!

Also the fact they said it differently changes nothing for me, As it was a question some one asked while at blizzcon and was stated there ALL monsters are level 61 even the bosses so I will believe them not your ignorant idea of it thinking it'll be different.


My post was edited shortly after the initial post for clarity...

My previous comments come from the Gamescom 2011 Inferno Mode Panel, a little before Blizzcon 2011, but not too long ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBH9wsIGbYU

At 2:30 Jay Wilson clearly says, "The basic monsters that you face in inferno are all at least level 61".

But, it's amusing that i'm the ignorant one just making up their statements.

Later in the same panel at 10:33 Jay says, "Max Level for monsters is level 61".

Those are two fairly different statements. Because of those two different statements, it's somewhat hard to tell which is actually correct. I've yet to see any more recent definitive statement saying that all monsters in inferno are level 61. It's certainly possible that Jay misspoke originally. But, it's not like i'm making up crap that was never said.
10/30/2011 06:37 AMPosted by FiveLitre
As I say, a monsters level may effect its own drop rate, but that does not by any means imply that all monsters of the same level will have the same drop rates. Each and every monster will have its very own set of drop rate statistics, and in that, its own statistics for the quality of those drops.


Where do you come up with this stuff? nothing in your post had anything to do with mine. Drop rates are determined by level and monster class.

If there is a link showing that rares in act1 have different drop rates than rares in act 4 please by all means link it.
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