Diablo® III

DoT Scaling and Attack Speed

Posts: 400
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=815482

So in this thread, some beta testers are finding that DoTs (generally, skills which do damage per second over X seconds) are scaling w/ a weapon's DPS, not the flat damage. Instead of the WoW method (lowering the time between "ticks," and then adding a whole tick after a threshold is reached), the damage is just flat out scaling w/ weapon speed. However, it only applies to DoTs or other non-weapon speed based skills (pets, channeled spells, Ice Armor reflect damage, etc).

First of all, GOOD. Continuous scaling makes it less of a headache to balance and see results instantly from upgrades in gear. However, will these effects be obvious in skill tooltips? Will it tell us when a skill uses a weapon's damage or DPS for calculations, plus how this all works in dual wield? Take a monk, dual wielding fist weapons, using Exploding Palm. He applies the DoT bomb; the DoT damage scales w/ weapon speed, but which weapon? Do you alternate hands to calculate damages?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
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Its either going to alternate or take the Mainhand.

I remember seeing something like this in another thread... i cant remember...
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Posts: 69
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=815482

So in this thread, some beta testers are finding that DoTs (generally, skills which do damage per second over X seconds) are scaling w/ a weapon's DPS, not the flat damage. Instead of the WoW method (lowering the time between "ticks," and then adding a whole tick after a threshold is reached), the damage is just flat out scaling w/ weapon speed. However, it only applies to DoTs or other non-weapon speed based skills (pets, channeled spells, Ice Armor reflect damage, etc).

First of all, GOOD. Continuous scaling makes it less of a headache to balance and see results instantly from upgrades in gear. However, will these effects be obvious in skill tooltips? Will it tell us when a skill uses a weapon's damage or DPS for calculations, plus how this all works in dual wield? Take a monk, dual wielding fist weapons, using Exploding Palm. He applies the DoT bomb; the DoT damage scales w/ weapon speed, but which weapon? Do you alternate hands to calculate damages?


+1, wtb blue post.
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Given that everything else already alternates when dual-wielding, it's pretty likely that this will function exactly the same way.
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Posts: 400
11/16/2011 04:46 PMPosted by BaalMangler
Given that everything else already alternates when dual-wielding, it's pretty likely that this will function exactly the same way.


True, but I wonder about procs or long cooldown spells. Earthquake, Revenge, runed Conviction Aura, etc. There's lots of strange cases where alternating hands doesn't really make a lot of sense.
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Beta tester confirms, Exploding Palm alternates hands (while dual wielding) to calculate DoT damage and APS scaling. You hit mob A w/ fist A, the DoT bomb ticks using damage/speed from weapon A. Good. Still, what about Earthquake, Rain of Vengeance? Runed Conviction Aura? Since these are DoTs that do damage each second, does each second alternate the weapon for the damage calculation? What about pets? Does Mystic Ally do alternating weapon damage? How does the Ally's damage scale w/ the monk's weapon speed?
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90 Human Paladin
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11/16/2011 04:41 PMPosted by Cacophony
So in this thread, some beta testers are finding that DoTs (generally, skills which do damage per second over X seconds) are scaling w/ a weapon's DPS, not the flat damage.

You answered your own question.
DoTs care about the DPS on your weapon and tick when it ticks, be it some set amount, or based on weapon speed.
Edited by Zosimas on 11/17/2011 10:16 AM PST
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11/17/2011 10:12 AMPosted by Zosimas
So in this thread, some beta testers are finding that DoTs (generally, skills which do damage per second over X seconds) are scaling w/ a weapon's DPS, not the flat damage.
<br />You answered your own question.<br />DoTs care about the DPS on your weapon and tick when it ticks, be it some set amount, or based on weapon speed.


Correct, but we don't know how that works w/ dual wielding, which weapon is used to calculate the damage ticks.
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Posts: 400
New info from beta testers regarding dual wield. Many "two handed skills" use the weapon damage or DPS of the weapon you used last. Imagine a dual wielding Barbarian spamming cleave and then using Hammer. He's using weapons A and B. Cleave, A, B, A, B, Hammer. Hammer uses weapon B's damage. Also, if you keep spamming Hammer now, it always uses weapon B, Hammer doesn't alternate weapons, unlike Cleave. This may be how cooldown, DoT, channeled skills work regarding APS continuous damage scaling. Still leaves questions about the Monk's Mystic Ally, runed Mantra of Conviction (constant DoT aura), or the Hunter's companion.
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Community Manager
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The tick rate of channeled skills is currently scaled by your weapon speed. This has the side effect of making the resource cost go up, which we’re okay with. It’s consistent with the philosophy that faster speed weapons consume more resource but may do more damage. Channeled skills might still be better with slower weapons though because on a channeled skill, you have as much mobility as you want, so the “mobility” and “overkill” advantages of faster weapons are eroded with channeled abilities, so all you’re left with is increased mana cost for increased damage.

We've been thinking of changing the tooltips and going with “ continuously does X% weapon damage”. The reservations we currently have are:
  • Even though we say continuously, there’s a pulse rate under the hood, so do players want to know this pulse rate?
  • If we did show a pulse rate, we’re adding more complexity to an already complicated tooltip.


However, the benefit of being able to directly compare 135% weapon damage on Disintegrate to X% weapon damage on another skill is super high, so we love that.

Stepping back and going big picture, we’re currently working on greatly simplifying tooltips. It’s too early to give details at this point, but our general feeling is that we provide way too much information in the skill tooltips in general.
Edited by Bashiok on 12/1/2011 12:28 PM PST
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Edited for spam.
Edited by Jacka on 3/18/2012 9:30 PM PDT
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lol necrod!

but ty for doing so, its interesting


i would like to ask you to consider making faster weapons resource costs scale with the speed as well, so that faster casting = less mana per cast and slower casting = higher mana per cost. for instance

1 speed: 80 mana
2 speed: 100 mana
3 speed: 120 mana

at least, to find a good balance, so that not only the damage is averaged between them, but the costs are too, it would only be fair imo

edit: as for ur questions, yes, it would be nice to know the pulse rate, however, id suggest doing somethign with tooltips that wow did - having the option of simple tooltips vs complicated ones
Edited by Honor on 12/1/2011 12:37 PM PST
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perhaps a simplified tool tip option like wow would be effective here?

for the casuals: simple tool tip comparing weapon dmg
for the theory crafters: damage equations!

i'd prefer for tons of information be available upfront instead of having to test it myself to figure out whats going on in this background!

edit: sorry honor i reposted you, seems u typed faster =/
Edited by Ludi on 12/1/2011 12:35 PM PST
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12/01/2011 12:25 PMPosted by Bashiok
Stepping back and going big picture, we’re currently working on greatly simplifying tooltips. It’s too early to give details at this point, but our general feeling is that we provide way too much information in the skill tooltips in general.
My feeling is that there's not enough information on the tooltips in general.

If I have an axe with +1-2 Fire damage...
  • Is that included in the DPS in the item tooltip?
  • Is skill damage based on the DPS number or the actual damage ranges? How is skill speed calculated?
  • It seems obvious that Cleave will deal 120% of the weapon's base damage, plus 120% of the additional fire damage as fire, but what about Electrocute? Will it deal lightning damage and fire damage? Will it deal it all as lightning? Will it ignore the additional fire damage?
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Thanks for the Update!

less is more
A philosophy that can be applied across the board.
Edited by FixtionFXR on 12/1/2011 12:39 PM PST
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haha np, i found the post when bash' said "a few seconds ago" =P
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Posts: 5,572
Thanks for the Update!

less is more
A philosophy that can be applied across the board.


yea but, itd be better to have both

ie in the options having a box to check like WoW has:

[] simplified/beginner tooltips
(or the other way around, and have the simple ones be default and...)
[] advanced tooltips


no reason not to imo
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Posts: 105
If I have an axe with +1-2 Fire damage...

Is that included in the DPS in the item tooltip?

Yes it is but do remember that mobs still have elemental resistances and only the elemental damage will be affected.
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12/01/2011 12:25 PMPosted by Bashiok
tepping back and going big picture, we’re currently working on greatly simplifying tooltips. It’s too early to give details at this point, but our general feeling is that we provide way too much information in the skill tooltips in general.
By too much information do you mean that you feel the tooltip is too complicated for most players or do you feel that you shouldn't even be exposing some of that information?

If it is the former, it might make sense to put in a preference for the level of detail on the tool tips as I know more than a few people here are gluttons for information.
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12/01/2011 12:38 PMPosted by GXSigma
Stepping back and going big picture, we’re currently working on greatly simplifying tooltips. It’s too early to give details at this point, but our general feeling is that we provide way too much information in the skill tooltips in general.
My feeling is that there's not enough information on the tooltips in general.

If I have an axe with +1-2 Fire damage...
  • Is that included in the DPS in the item tooltip?
  • Is skill damage based on the DPS number or the actual damage ranges? How is skill speed calculated?
  • It seems obvious that Cleave will deal 120% of the weapon's base damage, plus 120% of the additional fire damage as fire, but what about Electrocute? Will it deal lightning damage and fire damage? Will it deal it all as lightning? Will it ignore the additional fire damage?


itd prolly be best if additional affix damage isnt calculated in the tooltips, and have loading tips let us know that they arent
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