Diablo® III

Soul Harvest Stack = +10,000 attack in 5 min

I realized I made a mistake in my original post once I thought about it.

You could get a maximum of 2 sets of soul harvests unrunned: 0 sec, 15 secunrunned
Or with an indigo rune and the spirit vessel passive: 0 sec, 13 sec, 26 sec, 39 sec
If you could stack a 4 sets of soul harvest, then it would still be powerful. 126 atk / monster * 5 monsters * 4 sets = +2520 attack. You could keep using the spell to maintain this value.

We'll have to wait and see if it stacks.
Edited by TwirlingFern on 12/6/2011 12:38 PM PST
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Of course it won't stack that high, you pretty much just proved it with the numbers.

Most likely the max stacks is 5 and using it again will just refresh the buff.
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Unruned, you cannot have more than two Soul Harvest's up at a time. Here's how it breaks down:

Time 0 - Cast SH, one SH up with 30 secs left
Time 15 - Cast SH, one SH up with 15secs left, one SH up with 30 secs left
Time 30 - Original SH wears off, cast SH, one SH up with 15 secs left, one SH up with 30 secs left

From there on, one SH runs out whenever you cast a new one, so you can never have more than two up at a time.

With the Indigo rune, it comes out this way:

Time 0 - Cast SH, one SH up with 50 secs left
Time 15 - Cast SH, one SH up with 35 secs left, one SH up with 50 secs left
Time 30 - Cast SH, one SH up with 20 secs left, one SH up with 35 secs left, one SH up with 50 secs left
Time 45 - Cast SH, one SH up with 5 secs left, one SH up with 20 secs left, one SH up with 35 secs left, one SH up with 50 secs left
Time 50 - orginal SH wears off, 3 left up
Time 60 - Cast SH, one SH up with 5 secs left, one SH up with 20 secs left, one SH up with 35 secs left, one SH up with 50 secs left

From there the pattern repeats. You are able to have four up for 5 secs of every 15 secs, and three up the rest of the time. This is, of course, assuming it stacks. Which I personally doubt it will, but who knows?
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Of course it won't stack that high, you pretty much just proved it with the numbers.

Most likely the max stacks is 5 and using it again will just refresh the buff.


My bet is on refreshing the buff as well. However, no one will know until release. Soul Harvest was an ability during the 2011 Blizzcon PvP demo, but I doubt anyone used it enough to track the damage modifier and then tried to use it again to see if it would stack...
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Blizzard tooltips can be vague, but it's usually safe to assume that effects don't stack unless the tooltip specifically says they do, like for Cloud of Bats or Plague Bats. For all other spells, casting the spell again just refreshes the duration.

Effects that probably won't stack:
All snares
Poison Dart DOT
Indigo Plague of Toads
Obsidian Zombie Charger DOT
Obsidian Firebomb DOT
Locust Swarm
Acid Cloud DOT
Haunt
Soul Harvest beyond 5 stacks
Alabaster and Obsidian Spirit Barrage
Zombie Dogs beyond 3 dogs (4 with passive)
Obsidian Zombie Dog DOT
Golden Grasp of the Dead
Crimson Sacrifice beyond 3 stacks (4 with passive)
Gargantuan beyond 1 summon
Gruesome Feast beyond 5 stacks
Bad Medicine (if you have more than one Witch Doctor in party)

I'm not sure about these though:
Obsidian Acid Cloud
Big Bad Voodoo (if you have more than one Witch Doctor in a party)
Rush of Essence
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Well I can safely say that it is the similar mechanics of the Wizard Magic Weapon
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#W

So It won't stack and when doing it again a second time will refresh the old one.

Period.
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Also you're relating the 126 attack with a level 60 character. To put it into perspective, the level 60 enchants do 257 attack onto a piece of gear - and there's several of them for different types of gear, ie legs, boots, rings, etc.

I can mouseover Soul Harvest in the game and it says that it gives 34 attack for each monster affected. So that amount seems to scale with level.
Edited by Cujo on 12/7/2011 7:07 AM PST
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85 Orc Death Knight
RoE
6195
Also you're relating the 126 attack with a level 60 character. To put it into perspective, the level 60 enchants do 257 attack onto a piece of gear - and there's several of them for different types of gear, ie legs, boots, rings, etc.

I can mouseover Soul Harvest in the game and it says that it gives 34 attack for each monster affected. So that amount seems to scale with level.


Though for scaling and balance and such it would probably be better if it was a fixed %.

Maybe 5% per enemy. Never liked fixed numbers over %.
Edited by Kuzuryu on 12/11/2011 7:18 PM PST
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Though for scaling and balance and such it would probably be better if it was a fixed %.

Maybe 5% per enemy. Never liked fixed numbers over %.


Me neither and they actually changed it across all skills a month ago.
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If my maths are correct, Soul Harvest will still add nice damage even when you have good gear.

If your base Attack at level 60 is 1000, Soul Harvest will feel like a 57% damage increase.

With 2000 base Attack, it will feel like a 30% increase.

3000: 20% increase

4000: 15%

5000: 12%

Let's compare these damage increases to adding an AOE DOT instead of Soul Harvest. If you were going for a build that could do consistently high AOE DPS from range attacking once per second and mana isn't an issue, you would probably pick the skills in the following link starting with the top and moving down to the bottom:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#RbYhZS!!ZZZYYc

Corpse Bomb is your main nuke, giving you 213% DPS.

Adding Burning Dogs increases your DPS to 321%, which will feel like a 51% damage increase.

Adding Groping Eels increases your DPS to 399%,* which will feel like a 24% damage increase.

Adding Humongoid increases your DPS to 451%, which will feel like a 13% damage increase.

Adding Rain of Toads increases your DPS to 489%,* which will feel like an 8% damage increase.

Adding Cloud of Insects increases your DPS to 518%,* which will feel like a 6% damage increase.

*Takes into account that Corpse Bomb will not be cast when you are casting this skill. Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan have no duration limit so they are assumed to be cast before combat.

So at 5000 base Attack, Soul Harvest is your 5th best damage choice.

At 4000 and 3000, it is your 4th best.

At 2000, 3rd best.

At 1000, 2nd best.

These conclusions also assume that you picked Vengeful Spirit as your Soul Harvest runestone, which does more damage than Corpse Bomb, making you not lose damage for a second while casting Soul Harvest.

This doesn't take into account passives like Provoke the Pack (which would fit in around skill choice #3-5 depending on other variables), but you get the idea: Soul Harvest will probably be a part of optimal PVE damage builds. When you first enter Inferno with gear farmed from Hell mode, Soul Harvest will be a big damage increase. As you start adding Inferno gear and your Attack increases, you will probably need fewer survival and mana regen skills, so you will still be able to fit Soul Harvest into your build.
Edited by Uberstein on 12/12/2011 12:04 PM PST
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I know there have been some significant changes to the ability since anyone last posted on this thread, but I have an important point to bring up.

Though soul harvest would be effective even if it didn't stack, I think there would be some serious problems if it did. With the spirit vessel passive and soul to waste rune, there is a 12 second cooldown for a 60 second duration spell. But people have already pointed this out and done the calculations.

What I haven't heard anyone mention is the grave injustice passive. Every time an enemy dies within 8 yards (+ for pickup radius), all of your cooldowns are reduced by 1 second. If soul harvest stacked you could snowball, the more souls you harvested, the quicker you could take down enemies, which would allow you to harvest more souls, etc.

In light of this, I would assume that 5 souls is the max stack, and that if you use the ability twice and capture 3 souls each time, you would have 5 total. That or it would just refresh. I think if it functioned any differently, it would see a major nerf.

Let me know what your thoughts are!
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I agree with you: Grave Injustice is a good reason to assume that Soul Harvest does not stack beyond 5.

02/25/2012 09:40 AMPosted by D3BETA
and that if you use the ability twice and capture 3 souls each time, you would have 5 total


I personally agree more with your following statement: that it would just refresh.

I even fear that if you follow up a 3-monster Soul Harvest with a 2-monster Soul Harvest, the lower buff might overwrite the higher buff.

On a related note, I think that Grave Injustice and Soul Harvest could pair nicely together if you use the Swallow Your Soul mana regen rune. The faster you kill, the more mana you get back: allowing you to kill faster, and get more mana back, and so on.

While I was bummed with a lot of WD changes this patch, Soul Harvest remains a very strong skill. It went from 126 to 130 Intelligence per monster, plus it is a useful defensive skill because Intelligence now boosts resistances in this patch. Hopefully this will help the WD become the anti-Wizard class in PvP, the same way Warlocks beat Mages in WoW.

One more note about Soul Harvest: Soul to Waste (the duration increase) looks a lot better this patch. In previous patches, most people went with Vengeful Spirit because it did nice damage. Now it can be better for your overall damage to use Soul to Waste.

Example:

You use Dire Bats as your main nuke, so when you use Vengeful Spirit, you lose -170% + 70% = -100% weapon damage for one second. That's a -100%/15 = -6.7% overall DPS loss if you use Soul Harvest once every 15 seconds (you would actually want to use Vengeful Spirit once every 30 seconds, which would only be a -100%/30 = -3.3% overall DPS loss).

Whereas if you use Soul to Waste, that's a -170%/60 = -2.8% overall DPS loss. So not as bad as the other losses, plus it's probably easier to find a nice pack of 5 monsters to Soul Harvest once every 60 seconds opposed to every 30 seconds.

Some food for thought!
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That's a great point, I wasn't really considering effective DPS.

What if you took the swallow your soul mana regen rune, and used grave injustice + pierce the veil? Soul harvest on potentially low cd would allow you to sustain pierce the veil, which would likely get you ahead in effective dps. Of course this is at the expense of taking a precious passive slot.

My inclination with such a build would be to take dots and cc, like grasp of the dead, haunt and locusts. Grasp could probably be cast in quick succession due to grave injustice and the groping eels rune would yield high damage output. Since you are no longer rooted in place casting, you would be able to spend more time gaining position. With reduced cd, spirit walk with umbral shock could be fun too.

I'm personally in between the aforementioned build and a crit/cd reduc illusionist wizard (which likely won't be viable, but certainly fun).
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I can't imagine that Soul Harvest will stay as it is, even with the (obvious) no stacking.

Right now, it is +130 Intelligence per enemy affected, up to 5 enemies.

That's +650 Intelligence. The actual increase to damage that this would equate to depends on how much Intelligence the average lvl60 Witch Doctor has. Sadly, we can't really comment on those numbers.

However, on my Level 13 Witch Doctor, the bonus per enemy is +54 Intelligence. [I know the spell is not unlocked until level 22]. My Witch Doctor has fairly decent gear, and currently has 125 Intelligence (for +125% increased damage). With a full stack of Soul Harvest at lvl13, I would receive +270 Intelligence, bringing me to 395 total Intelligence (for +395% increased damage).

This is an overall increase of x3.16 damage, which is quite large indeed.

However, if a lvl60 Witch Doctor already has 1,000 Intelligence, the increase only comes out to x1.6. The impact of the spell is greater the less Intelligence your character has.
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I can't imagine that Soul Harvest will stay as it is, even with the (obvious) no stacking.

Right now, it is +130 Intelligence per enemy affected, up to 5 enemies.

That's +650 Intelligence. The actual increase to damage that this would equate to depends on how much Intelligence the average lvl60 Witch Doctor has. Sadly, we can't really comment on those numbers.


I agree this is a difficult ability to get a grasp on. It seems like if it stays the way it is, its an easy leveling choice since at level 22 I would think 650 int has to be significant.
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fyi - base intelligence @60 looks to be 187

start with 10, gain 3 per level

as far as what gear available at 60 adds - no clue

Also you start with 150 mana and gain 10 per level
@60 you'll have a base of 740 mana

lastly base mana regen/second is static at 25 mana / second
Edited by Vixen on 2/29/2012 6:41 PM PST
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Damn this looks like a high-dmg fun build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#aiQjkR!Yge!acbYYY

naked - when Vision Quest kicks in you will be regenerating 101.6 mana per second - again assume you are naked with only 888 mana @60 (+20% with Spiritual Attunement) it would only take 8-9 seconds to fully regen your mana.

A lot of these skills are not available until the late 50's but looks strong to me.
Edited by Vixen on 2/29/2012 6:53 PM PST
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Pile On augment of Zombie Wall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NSsgs1Q0d3s#t=78s

looks hilarious and powerful!!
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