Diablo® III

Character Customization Explained - Updated!!

90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10080
I don't have any problems with the stats, skills, and items in terms of customization. I'm happy with D2, I'm happy with D3, I don't really care about that at all.

My grief is with the lack of character development permanence. In D2, decisions made by the player were final and PERMANENT, giving the player complete control and satisfaction over their character as they played through the game. In D3, there are absolutely NO permanent choices that can be made when developing your character. Since every skill selection, rune selection, and item selection made by the player can be reversed 100%, I feel zero satisfaction when selecting items or abilities. Since they decided to abandon the more rigid structure of D2 in lieu of the happy-go-lucky WoW structure, I feel betrayed as a long-time Diablo 2 player and fan.

I just don't understand why they had to abandon it completely? Could they not strike a balance between permanent decisions and flexible ones? Could the players not make some decisions throughout the game that actually stand the test of time and shape their character, permanently, while also allowing a degree of flexibility?


Wayfarer, all I can say is look up a couple of posts to see my previous one. There's a reason they chose to avoid permanent choices (my post doesn't just apply to stats, but to all permanent choices), and we're better off for it. Now, the build we choose will be our build, not because we're locked into it, but because it is the exact build we want, and no other.
Edited by Khaldun on 12/31/2011 11:46 AM PST
Reply Quote
12/31/2011 11:37 AMPosted by Wayfarer
I just don't understand why they had to abandon it completely? Could they not strike a balance between permanent decisions and flexible ones? Could the players not make some decisions throughout the game that actually stand the test of time and shape their character, permanently, while also allowing a degree of flexibility?

That's a tough one to answer. Making characters inflexible (build/stat committal) is something a gamer in their late 20's (myself) is well acquainted with. We played NES games growing up. Castlevania, Rygar, battletoads, etc. These games forced the player to start over completely if they ran out of lives.
This is important in understanding the diversity among modern gamers. Many of us grew up with large punishments imposed for failure. Gold and experience loss (everquest, diablo II) were common. Modern games offer quick-saves, re-do's, and difficulty changes. Difficulty is artifically created from frustration. The new ideal is that difficulty should come from... difficulty! However, players are rewarded just for being logged in and playing the game. It's a mentality shift that many of us don't like because it's in stark contrast to what we've always been taught about how to play games. I'll cover this more in an upcoming section.
Reply Quote
12/31/2011 11:48 AMPosted by Dontinquire
I just don't understand why they had to abandon it completely? Could they not strike a balance between permanent decisions and flexible ones? Could the players not make some decisions throughout the game that actually stand the test of time and shape their character, permanently, while also allowing a degree of flexibility?

That's a tough one to answer. Making characters inflexible (build/stat committal) is something a gamer in their late 20's (myself) is well acquainted with. We played NES games growing up. Castlevania, Rygar, battletoads, etc. These games forced the player to start over completely if they ran out of lives.
This is important in understanding the diversity among modern gamers. Many of us grew up with large punishments imposed for failure. Gold and experience loss (everquest, diablo II) were common. Modern games offer quick-saves, re-do's, and difficulty changes. Difficulty is artifically created from frustration. The new ideal is that difficulty should come from... difficulty! However, players are rewarded just for being logged in and playing the game. It's a mentality shift that many of us don't like because it's in stark contrast to what we've always been taught about how to play games. I'll cover this more in an upcoming section.


Good reply, and right on the money for the point I've been trying to get across in all these types of threads. I'm starting to accept that the majority prefers the friendly/flexible approach, and I'm in the minority. :(
Reply Quote
Excellent post OP. Keep it up. :)
Reply Quote
Edited for spam.
Edited by Jacka on 3/18/2012 12:57 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Jacka, go read the first 3 pages of the forums, loads of threads with 1 paragraph saying
Skills are just the same, if people are too mad about their Frozen Orb Sorceress being so unique, it wasn't unique. New skill system has much more customization because of the runestones though. Basically you pick a skill, then pick a specialization based on what rune you socket it with.

or
No, this is just the same as Diablo 2. 1 stat will always be superior (Defense/Vitality), stats always came from gear, all they did was remove the option of making your character inferior. Some people think this is a good idea to have inferior character builds because they have spent the last 15 years playing Diablo and they already know all of this stuff, while I believe it is stupid to punish somebody for not spending a week reading about this game before they started playing it.

My thread is an attempt to educate potential players on where the differences are, why they are different, and how it all really boils down to the same customization, just rearranged. We also have a distinct lack of 1 to 1 comparisons from D2 to D3. I hoped this might educate players a bit.
Reply Quote
Edited for spam.
Edited by Jacka on 1/4/2012 7:17 PM PST
Reply Quote
Great post, keep going!

Now that customization comes from gems/enchants/runestones, it would be nice if one of each dropped when you level-up so that your level-ups actually provide exciting customization, especially for levels 31-60 where you gain no new skills.

Not sure if anyone has suggested this, but it might be a good idea in Diablo 3 if you kept your XP bar when you reached level 60, and it continually increased when you kill monsters as if you were leveling to 61. When you reach the end of your XP bar: you would stay at level 60, but another gem/enchant/runestone would drop. Rinse and repeat.

This could give players the long term goals that they felt grinding the later levels in Diablo 1 and 2.

It would also give long term value to experience gains, such as using rubies in your helm slot, or seeking the XP rewards from destroying the environment.
Reply Quote
This is an incredible post and I think the OP for his time in explaining the side by side comparisons to help shut down the constant flood of "my customization is gone" threads.

Again thank you.
Reply Quote

I have to say I am at a loss for words, for I was one of those that posted about losing customization. I am impressed OP. I bow my hat to you, and thank you for your post.

+1

I look forward to reading your 3-7 sub sections, and hope they offer me as quality a read as 1-3.


This.
Reply Quote
Great read OP. Well written and well thought out. Thank you.
Reply Quote
Awsome thread ^^ Thank you
Reply Quote
+1
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
8745
upvoting an awesome thread. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one without the kneejerk "less points = less choices = bad" reaction. Judging by the highly rated status of this post, I'm not alone among the readers.

One of the big issues was that sure, you technically had thousands and thousands of choices. Do I pump 19 points into bash, or 20? What if I only did 18 points? Technically, trillions upon trillions of possibilities. However, there were only actually a few meaningful choices. For character stats, your choices were, "do I build my character right, or do I build him like a moron and be forced to reroll once I reach hell?"

skills were much the same. Pump the skills that were actually useful? Or try something new and find out why nobody else pumps those other skills?

There are a lot less skill and attribute points to distribute in diabo 3, but in a way, I see it as increasing the number of actual options we have. The difference between a wizard with an alabaster rune in their disintegrate and a wizard with a crimson rune will be a lot more meaningful than a wizard with 19 points in frozen orb instead of 20
Reply Quote
Part 3 added. I still have a few edits to make but I have to leave the house. Part 4-7 will be added later tonight. Thanks for reading!
Reply Quote
12/31/2011 04:54 AMPosted by Dontinquire
Stat point allocation has not disappeared, it has transferred.
Agreed, but I don't think it will appease the critics. I've said the same thing in many threads made by critics. They keep saying 'I may want a tank Barb or a melee Wizard, but I can't choose to spend points in vit or def.' And I keep telling them 'Just gem and enchant for vit and def,' but they don't want to listen.
Reply Quote
85 Gnome Warrior
1355
Great thread +1

I think i will love the simple fact that i will now be able to make a Barb and not be pigeon holed into only being able to use 1 weapon type with the weapon specialization skill from D2 locking you into a certain type right from the start.
Reply Quote
First of all, thanks for an amazing thread! It was extremely informative for a non-"hardcore" D2 player.

My personal favorite aspect of Diablo 3 is that it gains depth as you progress through the game. In order to do well in D2 in the late game, you were required to have extensive plans about where you wanted to end up. One of my major turn-offs for D2 was needing to look up a build, since if I just went with my gut I wouldn't be viable by the time I reached hell difficulty. It seems that in D3 you grow along with the game.

In D3 normal, you can try out different spells, kill everything in sight, and generally develop a playstyle that you enjoy. Instead of having to lay the groundwork for high end build (point hoarding in D2) you're free to just experiment and not be punished for poor planning. In other words, you're free to try new things.

Then as you progress into higher difficulties, you're required to do more work. You've got a playstyle, now start looking at what skills facilitate that style. What kinds of stats do you need? What gear helps to optimize you're build? Don't like where you've ended up? Go ahead and pick out some new skills. You might have to spend more time replacing unhelpful gear, but you're free to make that change into something more. Blizzard even has certain item affixes, like resistances (which are unnecessary in earlier difficulties), not appear until you've learned enough to put them to good use.

I feel that as you're knowledge and skill at the game increases, it keeps throwing new challenges and ways to customize your character at you.

tl;dr D2 required a lot of preplanning, D3 lets you discover and experiment as you go along.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]