Diablo® III

Spirit Generator attack speeds

Edited to contain all of the data in first post.

Since Fist of Thunder said it is a "series of extremely fast punches", I wanted to see how much faster it was than other attacks. I equipped a 1.1 attacks per second daibo and held shift to attack for a minute and counted the attacks. I did this twice to make sure I did not count wrong. (it is much easier to count every 3rd attack if you want to verify this)

Normal Attack - Count 68/68, should be 66, so that is close, probably just the way the first attack was at 0 seconds. Also the daibo has attack animations for it that are pretty nice and depend on how the monk is facing to the direction of attack... too bad we will never see them in game because the weapons are not used on spirit generators.

Fist of Thunder - Count 102/101 - much faster, 1.7 attacks per second. About 55% faster

Deadly Reach - Count 90/89 - also faster, 1.5 attacks per second. About 36% faster. I found this odd because the description did not mention that it was faster than the normal attack.

Crippling Wave - Count 77/77 - faster but not that much, 1.28 attacks per second, About 16% faster. I suppose it is slower than the others because the AOE damage at 110% of weapon damage.

Exploding Palm - Count 96/96 -back to being fast again, 1.6 attacks per second, About 45% faster. No reason in description that it is faster or why it is faster than deadly reach.

I also looked into mixing the two, with 2 fist of thunder followed by a 3rd hit crippling wave. I think it should be 2/3(101 hits) + 1/3(77 hits) = 93 hits. But when I counted, it came out a little slower than that at around 87 hits in a minute. I think this is because you cannot just shift hold to attack on a mixed attack and that my "click, click, right click" is not 100% efficient compared to just holding down attack.

To follow up, I just did this with the Apprentice Spikes, 1.4 attacks per second, both hands so I get the 15% bonus. The character sheet said 1.61 attacks per second. The results are the same. Numbers below if you are interested.
Normal Attack - Count 100/98, should be 96.6, same reason as above.
Fist of Thunder - Count 147/147 - 2.45 attacks per second. About 52% faster
Deadly Reach - Count 129/130 - 2.15 attacks per second. About 33% faster.
Crippling Wave - Count 111/111 - 1.85 attacks per second, About 15% faster.
Exploding Palm - Count 141/141 -2.35 attacks per second, About 46% faster.


Why is this information not shown somewhere in game? The character page would be a good place to have a list of equipped skills, the damage they do and the attack speed. I guess that you probably do not want too much info on the tool tip to keep it from being to cluttered but I think this should be able to be found without all the counting.
Edited by D3BETA on 1/30/2012 7:01 AM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
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Posts: 168
This would definitely be useful information to have readily available, I agree.

I wonder if the percent weapon damage per second for each ability would change with fist weapons.
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Posts: 198
Interesting stuff! When the game releases you should do the remaining attacks too!
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90 Tauren Paladin
11545
Posts: 37
Query, are these number of attacks tied at all to the Daibo you used? Or will you always get this many attacks irrespective of weapon (due to using fists)?

If it's not too much trouble could you test this with two fast fist weapons and one weapon and shield?

I have no beta key or I would test this myself :(
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Interesting... If there is such a significant attack speed difference between the spirit generators, it should be mentioned in the tooltips as this could lead to a noticeable difference in damage output.
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To follow up, I just did this with the Apprentice Spikes, 1.4 attacks per second, both hands so I get the 15% bonus. The character sheet said 1.61 attacks per second. The results are the same. Numbers below if you are interested.

Normal Attack - Count 100/98, should be 96.6, same reason as above.
Fist of Thunder - Count 147/147 - 2.45 attacks per second. About 52% faster
Deadly Reach - Count 129/130 - 2.15 attacks per second. About 33% faster.
Crippling Wave - Count 111/111 - 1.85 attacks per second, About 15% faster.
Exploding Palm - Count 141/141 -2.35 attacks per second, About 46% faster.
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Posts: 236
I think the difference in attack speeds of the different spirit generators is due to the nature of their attacks. Notice how Deadly Reach and Crippling wave are much slower then the others? The first and second strikes of both of those attacks have an AoE component that effects multiple enemies, FoT and EP only have AoE components on the third strike.

It makes sense, CW already hits more enemies then FoT with each strike and hits harder then FoT does if there wasn't some kind of draw back there would be little reason to even consider FoT in your build.

I'll be interested to see if runes will effect the attack speeds of the strikes as well.
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I think the difference in attack speeds of the different spirit generators is due to the nature of their attacks. Notice how Deadly Reach and Crippling wave are much slower then the others? The first and second strikes of both of those attacks have an AoE component that effects multiple enemies, FoT and EP only have AoE components on the third strike.


I agree, this functionality would be fine, but if this is the case then Blizzard should make the information on attack speed differences available. We should be able to plan our builds with provided information, rather than needing to do such research on our own as Mechanical has done.
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Posts: 236
I fully agree with you in that the more info Blizzard provides ingame and through tooltips the better off we are. Bashiok has made it clear though that this is not their intent, they consider the current skill tool tips a bit to much already and plan on simplifying them. One thing they could change as a middle ground would be to note whether an attack is fast or slow in the description and would give us a slight clue to the functionality of the skill, but we'd still be driven to find out the exact attack speed ratio of the skill as we min/max our way through the game.
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I do not think it should be on the tooltip either. But it should be in the game as easily found information. The spirit generators are the foundation of how fast (or not) a monk can get the resource to do damage. How fast these attacks are is critical information. A long while back, Blizzard said they did not like rune words because you HAD to go look them up online outside of the game and that was not something they considered good design. The character sheet should have several more detailed tabs rather than just one. Thing like average hit damage this session, average damage taken per hit, gold found this game/hour. A tab for attacks, defense, and general game info.

Sure it lead to min/maxing but that is going to happen anyway. On the way there you can add a lot of interesting, useful stats, and throw some in there that are just fun. Such as, longest dash, farthest monster knockback, lowest life (try to get to 1hp and survive), % map uncovered this game session, broken vs unbroken environment etc.
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I do not think it should be on the tooltip either. But it should be in the game as easily found information. The spirit generators are the foundation of how fast (or not) a monk can get the resource to do damage. How fast these attacks are is critical information. A long while back, Blizzard said they did not like rune words because you HAD to go look them up online outside of the game and that was not something they considered good design. The character sheet should have several more detailed tabs rather than just one. Thing like average hit damage this session, average damage taken per hit, gold found this game/hour. A tab for attacks, defense, and general game info.

Sure it lead to min/maxing but that is going to happen anyway. On the way there you can add a lot of interesting, useful stats, and throw some in there that are just fun. Such as, longest dash, farthest monster knockback, lowest life (try to get to 1hp and survive), % map uncovered this game session, broken vs unbroken environment etc.


Blizzard has says multiple times they want all the information you want in game, so you don't have to go to a website. I've always wondered why they don't put a Wiki type system in the game itself, an encyclopedia that people can reference while in game. It would make things much easier to do so.
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Hmmm, something like "Deckard Cain's Library" It would give the player a reason to go to Deckard's house other than his journals.
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01/05/2012 11:07 AMPosted by D3BETA
Hmmm, something like "Deckard Cain's Library" It would give the player a reason to go to Deckard's house other than his journals.


This would be a good solution, it definitely fits the RPG part of Action RPG. Should be made available on the website as well, so we can theory-craft without booting up the game.
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Posts: 13
I am more interested in knowing how many attacks the first/second strike of each combo uses, not the entire combo, personally. This would help when you want to do the third strike of one of the generators as often as possible and don't care as much about the first or second strikes of any of them.

Just by watching videos I can see that the first two strikes of Fists of Thunder seem to be ridiculously fast compared to Deadly Reach.

Perhaps do a few tests with the "third hit" coming from a different generator. For example, how many Deadly Reach 3rd-hits can you get by using a FoT -> FoT > DR combo, compared to how many you get from a DR -> DR -> DR combo, or compared to a Crippling Wave -> FoT -> DR combo?
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Posts: 113
01/15/2012 11:32 PMPosted by Ampersand
Perhaps do a few tests with the "third hit" coming from a different generator. For example, how many Deadly Reach 3rd-hits can you get by using a FoT -> FoT > DR combo, compared to how many you get from a DR -> DR -> DR combo, or compared to a Crippling Wave -> FoT -> DR combo?


That is a good point and I guess your reasoning is keeping that 30% damage up, but as well having a fast spirit gen as possible. since DR does take a significant amount of time for the third strike.

if I had Beta I would be doing a billion tests..

This is why I love the monk so much is the craft.. it isnt straight forward and there are many combos/orders we must know... As I feel Monk class gives the most room for skill cap.
Edited by Vicarez on 1/16/2012 1:04 PM PST
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Awesome info indeed! Much appreciated
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I verified Fist of Thunder and Crippling Wave are the same speed in Patch 10.

I also looked into mixing the two, with 2 fist of thunder followed by a 3rd hit crippling wave. I think it should be 2/3(101 hits) + 1/3(77 hits) = 93 hits. But when I counted, it came out a little slower than that at around 87 hits in a minute. I think this is because you cannot just shift hold to attack on a mixed attack and that my "click, click, right click" is not 100% efficient compared to just holding down attack.

Going to update the original post as well.
Edited by D3BETA on 1/30/2012 6:59 AM PST
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great. now if we can find out how big of a range is a "yard" we'll be golden
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