Diablo® III

Which Class Still Needs Some Work?

When developing the different class types for an RPG like Diablo, IMO the best way to develop them is to create them as if they were going to be the only class in the game.

Take God of War for example, the whole game is based around 1 character, Kratos a Warrior of badassery and the entire series was epic from start to finish. The same stands true for Darksiders and the story of "War" and the upcoming Darksiders II with the story of "Death".

If Blizzard was to design Diablo III around only 1 class, which of those classes do you feel would be the most limited? Or just doesn't seem "completed" yet?
Edited by KhalDrogo on 1/14/2012 9:55 AM PST
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Definitely the Monk. Basing that purely on build count. The monk has fewer combinations by far than any other class.
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Monk also doesn't swing with his weapon which to me is unacceptable. Melee classes have to swing their weapons. Only casters can get away with possessing a weapon as only a stat booster.
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Agree with zombie and bottle, just want to add, monk weapon animations or the lack of.
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Over on the Monk boards, a lot of Monk players would tend to agree with this assessment.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3881920837

The most commonly cited reasons for this are:

1) Fewest number of active & passive skills of all of the classes
2) Poorly explained rune mechanics & active/passive interactions for many skills
3) One of the last classes to be normalized to weapon damage
4) Weapon animations missing--the monk sheaths his weapons for essentially every single move

Arguments against point #1 include that the monk can do more with fewer skills to choose from...which is not necessarily an invalid point except that people are generally unsatisfied by having less overall choice. Maybe doing more with less is a flavour choice...but it's one best imposed on the monks lore development, rather than players making gameplay decisions.
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Oh and bring back lethal decoy, cyclone strike is meh...
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Class: Release Date
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01/12/2012 08:52 PMPosted by D3BETA
Oh and bring back lethal decoy, cyclone strike is meh...


Keep them both. Why not?
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I'm going to to agree as well. The Monk does stand out as being the class that isn't quite finished yet. From the lack of weapon animations to the silly skills like "Wave of Light" which doesn't do anything from what the name suggests (summons a giant bell or giant pillar if runed) and looks more like a rushed and out of ideas type skill than something that had a lot of thought put into it.
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I'm not sure there will be a single response to this thread indicating any other class.

Although, if I may, I'd also like to bring up the Witch Doctor. He's great as of now, but it feels to me like you can't get very much utility with a WD without summons. I'd like to have a summon-free WD, but it's hard to make a good build in that regard. Does anyone else feel this way?


I disagree. One of the WD builds I've been playing around with specializes entirely in the spirit tree. It has absolutely insane mana regen and does ridiculous amounts of damage every time the WD goes into spirit walk (which happens MORE frequently the faster you are killing things).

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#Ucgije!UVS!ZaaYab

Obviously this build might be gimped and I think more realistically it might not have all 6 spirit skills but one or two others...but there is no reason that those others NEED to be summons.
Edited by bluewolf on 1/12/2012 9:08 PM PST
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Yes, the WD falls closely behind the Monk and the one skill that comes to mind is the blow dart. It just looks so bland and boring. The rest of his skills just need some polish and touching up. Maybe add another animation type for the fire bomb when it explodes instead of the same exact animation over and over. Also, the giant frog. I like the skill, but the frog needs to look more undead or demonic. The current version of it looks like a frog straight out of care bears.

Thanks for bringing that up. I really dislike that skill, and the thought process behind it. When watching one of the developer panels advocating the rune effect of crashing a temple around his enemies, that was my biggest facepalm moment in the history of the D3 dev. team creativity.


Yeah the "Giant Pillar" and "Giant Bell" Wave of Light skill has been the laughing stock of all of Blizzards /facepalm creations. Diablofans.com even put up a front page article over the skill which 99% of everyone there agreed too that the skill needs to be completely dropped. That skill just screams "silly" and I for one do not want Diablo to fall to the "silly" side as that should be reserved for WoW. Keep Diablo on the "serious" side.
Edited by KhalDrogo on 1/12/2012 9:19 PM PST
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85 Orc Hunter
1740
Well, 99% of people agreeing with you on a front page post doesn't really mean too much. For the most part, if people see a post where the opinions are highly one sided against them, they know the topic is toxic and avoid it. Posting in that situation can only lead to downvotes and buried posts!

And on the flip side, people who agree see free upvotes. It's called the "forum echo effect."

Of course, trolls are a different beast entirely.
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I completely disagree with everyone saying monk. Wizard in my opinion is the most needing of a change, NOTHING attracts me to them. Their mechanics appear to be extremely weak, with little to no interesting builds.

01/12/2012 08:42 PMPosted by Bottle
I think he needs a bit of re-working. For one thing, there's very little, or no benefit for having more than one mantras in a build, greatly reducing the diversity. The Paladin had many uses for multiple auras.


Ice armor, storm armor and energy armor. Whats the point of having 2 of them? There doesn't need to be a point for two auras. Signature skills are not so much redudant, as irrelevant. They cannot be used for damage purposes soley due to low ratios, (passive virtuoso completely out does them there) thus they must be used to pass time between using skills or to generate arcane power with each of their golden runes. They are equally boring. The passives with a few exceptions don't bring anything interesting to the table. Offensive spells for the most part only get choices in how they do damage, not what they would be used for. Utility runes are the only ones that seem at all interesting.

On the other hand, I really like the monks 1 2 3 hits system. Hes got quite a few builds you could use with him, plenty of room for theory crafting between spirit generators. Hes got multiple options for mobility, and seemingly endless options for defense. Hes got more utility then any other class in the game. His list of passives is well made. While he could use an addtional spirit spender or two, hes for the most part complete. The wizard needs more work then he does.
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Well, 99% of people agreeing with you on a front page post doesn't really mean too much. For the most part, if people see a post where the opinions are highly one sided against them, they know the topic is toxic and avoid it. Posting in that situation can only lead to downvotes and buried posts!

And on the flip side, people who agree see free upvotes. It's called the "forum echo effect."

Of course, trolls are a different beast entirely.


Ah Herr Doctor Reylone, I recall reading your dissertation on zee Quantum Tunneling Mechanism of Blizzard Forum Chromodynamics. Vvvery interesting, nein? Dah, ist gud indeed Herr Doctor, but perhaps you vould care to elucidate zee topic and, through philosophical exploration explore vith us zee topic of zese other cases of class-incompleteness prior to zee collapse of their probability vave-function into one distinct front-page observation?

Translation: examples of other classes feeling different from this thread?

@Ascended The wizard does not typically come to mind when thinking of classes with work to be done. Perhaps the wizard has 3 relatively indistinct armor choices (but the Monk has 4 mantras)--but I'd argue that rune effects on those mantras are more variable than what the Monk can do with his mantras. Signature skills can also be runed to great effect, for example to interact with one of several different passives that the Wizard has. The monk has six combo attacks. Moves that any monk build will arguably include at least one or two of. There is only one (maybe one and a half, depending on your definition) passive that interacts with Monk combos...and it's a flat damage increase (and not a huge one at that).
Edited by bluewolf on 1/12/2012 9:41 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
4540
01/12/2012 08:42 PMPosted by Bottle
I think he needs a bit of re-working. For one thing, there's very little, or no benefit for having more than one mantras in a build, greatly reducing the diversity. The Paladin had many uses for multiple auras.


If you put points into multiple auras your paladin sucked. You could only have one active at a time. Just like the mantras. You can take two and swap them out depending on the situation if you want some healing, more avoidance, or damage. That is probably a more viable strategy for the monk than it ever was for the paladin.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#eadfhb!ZWU!ZaaZaZ

This is a dodgy monk. Keep sweeping winds up, use crippling wave to slow movement/attack speed, fists of thunder is main attack - increases dodge rating. Using Dashing strike to get in close to ranged mobs, drop inner sanctuary to deal damage to them and also keep melee attackers from engaging you until you can take out the ranged attackers. Between Mantra of Evasion and the passive skill Guardians Path you are at 35% chance to dodge, with and additional 11% from Fists of Thunder (you cannot count on this all the time as it has only a 2 second duration). Then Sixth Sense grants dodge = half crit chance. assume maybe a 20% chance to crit. You will be sitting at 45%-56% chance to dodge an attack.

If mobs are hitting you ten times a second, crippling wave reduces that to 6.5 times a second then you dodge 45-56% of those attacks 3.57-2.86 attacks per second.
Edited by Caylvan on 1/12/2012 10:16 PM PST
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01/12/2012 09:44 PMPosted by Caylvan
I think he needs a bit of re-working. For one thing, there's very little, or no benefit for having more than one mantras in a build, greatly reducing the diversity. The Paladin had many uses for multiple auras.


If you put points into multiple auras your paladin sucked. You could only have one active at a time. Just like the mantras. You can take two and swap them out depending on the situation if you want some healing, more avoidance, or damage. That is probably a more viable strategy for the monk than it ever was for the paladin.


Just to toss this out there, because we don't have a complete picture for itemization yet, but apparently the health regen on Mantra of Healing is absolutely horrendous.
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01/12/2012 09:35 PMPosted by bluewolf
@Ascended The wizard does not typically come to mind when thinking of classes with work to be done. Perhaps the wizard has 3 relatively indistinct armor choices (but the Monk has 4 mantras)--but I'd argue that rune effects on those mantras are more variable than what the Monk can do with his mantras. Signature skills can also be runed to great effect, for example to interact with one of several different passives that the Wizard has. The monk has six combo attacks. Moves that any monk build will arguably include at least one or two of. There is only one (maybe one and a half, depending on your definition) passive that interacts with Monk combos...and it's a flat damage increase (and not a huge one at that).


I said well made, its quality not quanity. Maybe it needs another passive or two, but the monk is far closer to completion then the wizard is. Mantras runes are made so that other people can benefit from them to, not just the monk. This does limit what the runes can be, but it doesn't nessisarly mean they are worse. Runed to great effect eh? But WAIT you mention the passives, those aren't runes..... I'd say only 2 of each of the runes on the signatures are anywhere close to worthwhile, the golden for all, obsidian for missile, alabaster for shock pulse, obsidian for blades, and lastly obsidian and alabaster for electrocute.
Edited by AscendedOne on 1/12/2012 9:56 PM PST
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