Diablo® III

Which Class Still Needs Some Work?

Posts: 621
You said 'runes on passives'

I said 'Rwhat rid ryou ray Rhaggy?'
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90 Night Elf Druid
4540
Posts: 682
01/12/2012 09:47 PMPosted by bluewolf


If you put points into multiple auras your paladin sucked. You could only have one active at a time. Just like the mantras. You can take two and swap them out depending on the situation if you want some healing, more avoidance, or damage. That is probably a more viable strategy for the monk than it ever was for the paladin.


Just to toss this out there, because we don't have a complete picture for itemization yet, but apparently the health regen on Mantra of Healing is absolutely horrendous.
With the crimson rune it beats out the Barbarians Warcry alabaster rune which grants 122 life per second. If I did ever take Mantra of healing I'd take either Alabaster rune for resistances or the Obsidian rune for increased vitality and recast the Mantra for a quick 1200 over 3 seconds healing spell. In the respect it seems a lot more effective. Than just 82 life a second.
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Posts: 1,755
Archivist...he kept dying while trying to demonstrate his skills.
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Posts: 38
if they make monk more powerful then he alrdy is would be no point of playing any other class he is not a easy class to play but he is all about combo and at high lvls will kick butt
Edited by kadop on 1/13/2012 1:19 AM PST
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Posts: 621
01/13/2012 01:18 AMPosted by kadop
if they make monk more powerful then he alrdy is would be no point of playing any other class he is not a easy class to play but he is all about combo and at high lvls will kick butt


Powerful =/= Variable

Power boils down to increasing or decreasing a couple of coefficients in a few formulas and doing a bit of playtesting.

Variability means the number of choices on how to 'be' powerful. The monk, by one estimate, is the least variable class.

The argument here is that the monk has in versatility what he lacks in variability. The question is whether or not we, as a community, are okay with that. I'm not sure I am, at any rate.
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Posts: 1,037
Probably all of them.
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Posts: 297
01/13/2012 01:18 AMPosted by kadop
if they make monk more powerful then he alrdy is would be no point of playing any other class he is not a easy class to play but he is all about combo and at high lvls will kick butt


Not a single person here is asking to make the Monk more powerful, they are saying he needs more abilities, add weapon attack animations instead of sheathing weapons before each attack and to completely redesign the "Wave of Light" skill instead of summoning a retarded giant bell or giant pillar.

It is arguably the worst skill animation ever created and this is saying alot since Blizzard has always been top of the line when it comes to things like this.
Edited by KhalDrogo on 1/13/2012 5:39 AM PST
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85 Night Elf Priest
9920
Posts: 7,143
Over on the Monk boards, a lot of Monk players would tend to agree with this assessment.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3881920837

The most commonly cited reasons for this are:

1) Fewest number of active & passive skills of all of the classes
2) Poorly explained rune mechanics & active/passive interactions for many skills
3) One of the last classes to be normalized to weapon damage
4) Weapon animations missing--the monk sheaths his weapons for essentially every single move

Arguments against point #1 include that the monk can do more with fewer skills to choose from...which is not necessarily an invalid point except that people are generally unsatisfied by having less overall choice. Maybe doing more with less is a flavour choice...but it's one best imposed on the monks lore development, rather than players making gameplay decisions.

its one of the problems of making a martial arts based characters in a game where weapons effect your damage so much.

maybe they should have gone the fist weapons only style and just made like special handwraps or brass knuckles or like some kind of glow around the fist like everquest did.
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They delay the game for some "polish" work yet the Monk is still in its rough draft form? I really don't get it... they've had the last 2 years to iron this class out. I don't want to sound rude but the last thing we need is a delay because they weren't productive enough in development.
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Maybe it's a cultural thing but I don't find the Wave of Light animation or concept silly. I've seen quite a lot similar designs in kung fu movies in which characters utilize their environment to attack their enemies, including but not limited to breaking huge temple bells and throwing trees/pillars...it's just in this case the bells and pillars aren't physical.
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Posts: 297
I believe there is already fist type weapons that look like regular gauntlets that glow. Hopefully there will be tons of weapons like this in D3 if blizzard doesn't intend to fix the sheath issue.
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Posts: 621
I'm not about the aesthetics of wave of light. Seems fine to me. I know the whole bell/pillar concept was poorly received by the community here, but I figure that's more graphically interesting that your run of the mill beam of white light. Let the wizard do stuff like that.

One Monk-related graphic thing that I think every single member of this forum needs to upvote, however, is this proposal which I laid out on an alternate thread (link below):

The Monk active skill Mantra of Retribution is your typical thorns aura. An enemy attacks the Monk, and some % of the damage that enemy does is reflected back onto the foe. There are several rune effects for this, including one which increases the range to include ranged mobs and increases the damage as well. Graphically, I think there is the potential to make this one skill literally the coolest skill of the entire game--all that Blizzard would have to do is make each reflected damage proc use the graphic of one tick of Seven Sided Strike. Monster hits Monk, and the Monk moves faster than the eye can see to punch that monster right back.

For those who are unfamiliar with Seven Sided Strike, here are some reference videos:

Seven Sided Strike:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x_YN5d6FH8

Seven Sided Strike with Alabaster Rune:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKOmX4oDAUE

All you'd need is the graphic of the monk going in for one strike, minus any flashy images or the symbol that is drawn on the ground (Seven Sided Strike, as the name suggests, hits many times, but I'm just saying one animation of the monk striking out of nowhere per reflected damage proc is appropriate here). You rune up Mantra of Retribution to hit ranged enemies (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#.....V!!.....Z), and you give reflected damage procs one of these animation, and I guarantee you have just created the most graphically interesting skill in the entire game. Hands down. I'm not sure Mantra of Retribution offers optimal DPS, but, although I tend always towards glass cannon builds, I would absolutely pick up that Mantra over Conviction if this is what it looked like.

The original thread on the matter:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3881922114

Anyway, I know that's a tangent but I wanted to bring attention to ways to flesh out the Monk a bit more, since I love the class so! Sorry to redirect! Come right back after you give your props and give us your 2 cents on what classes you want to see polished!
Edited by bluewolf on 1/13/2012 4:20 PM PST
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Posts: 621
01/13/2012 03:47 PMPosted by KhalDrogo
I believe there is already fist type weapons that look like regular gauntlets that glow. Hopefully there will be tons of weapons like this in D3 if blizzard doesn't intend to fix the sheath issue.


A while back we were talking about this on the monk forums, and we in fact concluded that the monk even sheaths fist weapons when striking with a combo. Here's the reference quote

It didn't seem right to me either, but I tested it myself and it's true. If someone else could also check and confirm my results that's about as much proof as I can offer. Remember to zoom in and take off your gloves before checking.


Standing with fist-wraps
http://i.imgur.com/Fe6c6.jpg

Explosive Palm with fist-wraps
http://i.imgur.com/pyETK.jpg

Deadly Reach with fist-wraps
http://i.imgur.com/z1snw.jpg

As you can see, the fist-wraps go away.


And here's the post: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3229083421
Edited by bluewolf on 1/13/2012 4:25 PM PST
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Posts: 621
Runeword--the Monk class is my favorite too ;)

I know lots of people had problems with the DH resource system though, but I'm curious: do you think this is a problem of getting the math right (ie, how much hatred/discipline is generated/spent by skills) as opposed to the mechanic itself being flawed irredeemably?
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Posts: 516
Genius thread. Hope Blizzard sees this.
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85 Worgen Mage
7300
Posts: 289
The monk is my favorite. Fast, fun, and I like that he doesn't use his weapons in the animations. It's very street fighter.

However once I equip a weapon that looks amazing I'll probably be disappointed that he doesn't use it.

After leveling all 5 to 13 I'd have to say the witch doctor felt the least appealing, and the wizard needs re-working. Standing in a room and holding down the left mouse button while electrocute destroys everything in the room is not challenging or fun. You barely have to even aim it in the right direction.
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Posts: 297
A while back we were talking about this on the monk forums, and we in fact concluded that the monk even sheaths fist weapons when striking with a combo.


I have heard of this but didn't know if it was just someone blowing smoke or if it was for real. If it is real then that just proves sloppy and unfinished work on Blizzards part. Hopefully this extra polish to the game that Blizz keeps talking about will correct this issue.

However once I equip a weapon that looks amazing I'll probably be disappointed that he doesn't use it.


Most people will be disappointed after awhile if not right at the start. Diablo is all about loot and the most important piece of loot you can get is in fact weapons. I want to be able to USE the weapons I have. Not run up to an enemy with weapons in each hand and right before attacking....."Oh wait 1 sec mr. demon guy while I sheath my awesome weapons, Ok! now fight!"
Edited by KhalDrogo on 1/13/2012 6:59 PM PST
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Posts: 621
@Dayton - The Wizard's strengths will probably balance out towards the higher difficulties...time will tell.

But saying the WD is unappealing... poor WD... all he wants is to conjure up the undead, walk through the world in an ethereal state, and occasionally blow up his dogs at you =( no love...
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Posts: 236
I agree that the monk needs some love, although I do really like the class overall. However I think the demon hunter needs the most work. The whole dual-resource thing just isn't doing it for me. It could just be that the math needs tweaking on it but I dunno...they both come back on their own, but one comes back faster and can also be generated through certain skills? It just seems a little too complex. Like they overcomplicated in the name of balance.

I still had fun as the DH, esp once I got rapid fire (it's so awesome!!), I just think they need to go back to the drawing board a bit on her resource
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