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I know this isnt the place for it, but to be honest this is the only place i go to and i know you guys pretty well, so...
Who else is really disappointed with the new systems. Forcing characters to get specific stats. Dexterity for us. just lame
White items are useless now. I hate that sooo much. I loved being able to pick up everything and break it all down. Now it does nothing.
No more neph or jordon cube. sooo lame... I loved using the neph cube so much.
No mystic! I was gonna go mystic! So freaking lame!
Anyways, you're my fellow Demon Hunting brothers, How do you feel about the changes?
Edited by EveOfTheWar on 1/19/2012 4:35 PM PST
The majority of the changes are insignificant. Str/Dex/Int will just be another way to limit items to particular charcters. Although they didn't have to remove the attack stat entirely, they could have designated pieces of gear to have the attack stat to allow multiple classes to wear it. The new crit chance sounds like every piece of gear will list the extact crit chance it gives, and not have a damned point to % ratio.
As far as the cube goes, it makes sense to limit deconstructing items to inside towns since you can't craft anything outside of them anyways. I hope that the removal of cube/cauldron doesn't force us back to town too much but overall it doesn't seem that bad. If designing the mystic right would take too much time, I see no reason not to wait to add her in an expansion. Course, I'm not in the beta, so maybe my opinion is uneducated.
Edited by AscendedOne on 1/19/2012 11:07 PM PST
i like all the changes, adding +class damage for certain stats makes finding the perfect item that much more fun, and valuable, and they have already stated that in the big picture, it doesn't alter gear choice that much, just adds to it
most of all, going back to town to mingle with the townsfolk to barder, salvage and buy, imo will be a welcome break to the action
Agreed... To much streamlining puts you back into the "You are either doing it right, or you are doing it wrong."
Imagine: "Yeah, I wanted to build a melee hunter, so since Im in the action more, I thought I would go STR for +armor since I am less likely to be dodging anyway."
"Yeah, but... dude, your skills do crap for damage! What you gonna do? Tickle them to death?"
This new system works at making characters only function a certain way... Yeah, I can stack armor on my wiz, but she will suffer greatly in dmg out-put.
SO, if you WANT to play a glass cannon Wizard/Witch Doctor, a dodgey Monk/Demon Hunter, or a Tank Barbarian, this system is great!
IF you wanted to try anything DIFFERENT, however, you are now in gimp land.
THIS is all CONDITIONAL of course, depending on how BIG a difference the stats make. And if its not that big? Why did they change it in the first place?
"You are either doing it right, or you are doing it wrong."
it is no diff now than before in terms of what stats you want, damage vs survival, other than by name on the stat.
The effect is to distibute the odds for obtaining your classes BiS item in terms of the roll you want it to do
a +attack helm was perfect for all classes, this wont be the case i.e. the item market will diversify
As far as our offensive stats go nothing is changing. We were going to be stacking ATK because you could never get enough PRE to make it worth it. PRE's value went up with ATK, but ATK's was so much better that it was stupid to even consider PRE, it was going to be ATK and Vitality or whatever it was before. Now we get Dodge and increase in ATK from DEX. And crit look like it MAY be worth going after now to a certain degree. Although with Crit I think it will go the route of WoW and it will never be as good as other stats so it still won't be stacked, but we'll have to wait and see.
If they are smart, this actually won't have an effect on our choice for builds. I realize they removed the Mystic, but there were enchants that were for say a 2h mace, that returned AP for wizards, and Bow enchants that returned mana for WD's. I'm pretty sure I saw a melee weapon enchant that returned hatred as well. While they are getting rid of the Mystic, they could very easily re itemize the gear to have this kind of stuff anyway. Especially since they already have to change it all. So we could end up with a Dagger or a 1h Sword that had Dex on it for melee DH. Or a 2h mace that had INT for wizards.
Personally I think that the melee DH was no where near as viable as a melee wizard, DH's are just much squishier without as many mitigation abilities as a wizard has, but I can understand the "its fun for some people" and agree that they should do their best to keep that possible.
I do think that the additional bonus to INT is really really weak compared to the rest. WD's and Wizards are getting screwed, and I think it would be much better to add some small amount of magical damage mitigation from it instead, but IDK Armor is going to do what defense did before and reduce both magical and physical damage, so it would seem a little redundant, but as it is its really lame.
I was the most upset about their removal of the Mystic though, and their reason was garbage, because it totally added another dimension of customization. But whatever, I think it was more about a difficulty with balance with the Mystic than lack of customization, but again we'll probably never know, I just hope it comes back in the expansion.
The possible really bad thing about the stat change could be that if it stays how it was and every piece of gear can have any stat on it, we could end up getting a Bow with STR on it and no DEX. I don't think it's likely because it sounds like they are making them base stats that will always be on our weapons and gear that is meant for us, but its a concern.
As far as the cube goes, I'm not happy, but I get why, and it makes sense, same with the white items thing. I do think that it is a little true though that if they aren't going to be worth vendoring, and won't be giving us mats, there isn't much reason to have them at all, the whole "it makes the better gear that much better" is kinda lame.
I do however, completely disagree with the Scroll of Identification thing. Before it added a sort of paradox at times. If you ran out of them out in a dungeon, you ultimately ran into the times when you had a full inventory, and there was an item that you weren't sure if it was going to be better or not, and had to sort of take the risk either way, or go back to town. Now you just drop an item, identify, and decide. They should just take the hidden stats out completely, and show us what it is when it drops. I liked the scrolls but keeping things hidden just to make us cast an identify is lame.
There was one clarification that came with these changes that I hadn't heard about before. Apparently you can put default attack on alt-X and it will switch in for your left click (might have been right click.) This clears up the whole issue with fundamentals, and thrill of the hunt, and makes them both much better, it also had vast effects on my Wizard build, but that is not for this thread. Fundamentals is not as good of a return as Virtuoso though, so I still wonder if it will be worth it, you'll get more damage per your hatred generated, but you'll get more utility out of using a better generator.
There was also a comment about this, from the article, talking about why they making it a potion specific button, and not letting people use it for default attack. And that was that there was no situation in end game when you couldn't sustain enough damage regen from natural regen, or generators, and there was no reason to use those passives at end game. So I honestly think they will be taken out or modified in light of this. Or it means that they are going to be a leveling passive that gets replaced when we're moving into inferno.
Edited by Sasukekun on 1/23/2012 2:32 AM PST
In the old system you chose between Attack, Precision, Defense and Vitality.
Defense and Vitality were basically the same thing (survivability).
Attack and precision were basically the same thing (more damage).
The only difference was you could stack precision (at least in theory) to complement a crit-heavy build.
The only stat choice that was lost there was +crit.
Now, instead of stacking Attack, Crit or Survivability, you get to stack +Damage, +Crit or +Survivability.
So really it's the same as before.
The stats used to be an indirect way of modifying your powers through gear. Now you directly modify your powers through gear.
You still have the same choices, they just have different names.
And certain classes will benefit more from certain weapons... meaning wizards will be *less* likely to use swords, axes etc. and more likely (but not forced) to use wands.
Hm I see your point, they weren't really different things that you added for the most part. To me it was like you chose your own affix for something though which I liked. I'm sure there will probably be some sort of +resource gain on crit as an affix, but I like those sorts of things that you won't get out of gems, and may not get on gear. Being able to add that one thing to a piece may make that piece the best piece for you, even though it isn't perfect stat wise. But I do agree that we should trust in their judgement, I think it will come back for the expansion though.
@Smop, in theory yes you could stack enough precision to help in a crit build, but the problem was that those crit builds aren't going to stack up as well as other types of builds, they were viable, but really dependent on perfect play and PRE stacked to obscene amounts. When you could just go without crit and stack ATK to the ceiling and do more damage with your normal hits, than you would do if you had stacked crit and got a crit strike.
I'm on the fence about the whole diversity thing, and how it will effect the viability of certain "odd" builds. For the most part, I don't care too much about playing a melee wizard, or DH, and while I think that the Range barb would be an interesting idea (and probably only remain interesting as an idea) they wouldn't need different weapons. So to me, it doesn't matter, if they are going to be more restricting with what you can use, that's fine with me.
The thing that matters to me, is that it sounds like it isn't going to be like a Prime Stat, with a few randomly assigned stats but instead it will all be random. That means two things. 1. Every build is still viable, and will be able to get a weapon that is good for you. If they are randomly generated on each piece of gear, than a Mace with INT will drop at some point. Or a sword or dagger with DEX. 2. We will be facing a very frustrating grind for gear. Before we could all use each stat on a piece of gear. Now it could be completely possible to get a badass legendary, or rare, or unique that drops, having INT on it, and it's a bow. Or a mace. Or a Daibo (Sp?).
I have a feeling that blizzard has thought of this. It would be extremely annoying to have that happen, and it really means that the odds are that gear will be dropping with stats you don't want more than stats you do want because you only really want 1/3 of the stats, but they can all be on gear.
I'm thinking that on Weapons where it really matters the most, it will be set on each piece of gear, so a legendary Bow would only be able to have Dex on it. But we'll see this is my only worry about this new system. (That and that it won't fix the issue with crit, but crit is always like this, its cool to have if it's there, but in any game I've ever played it's never worth stacking in large numbers. Mages in WoW are the exception, and IDK if they even do anymore I don't think so.)
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