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Okay a little misleading, I very seriously doubt that it would make it easy mode. But I believe that 4 monks have a serious advantage in Inferno working together. So, here are the builds. They won't be perfect, but it should be a nice starting point.
Again, I don't think they are optimized, but I tried to cover different things with each one while at the same time providing for some of the same things each.
So what do you think? Make the builds better, or make your own. It's also perfectly possible you could have 4 monks all with the same builds but with different mantras and have it be bad !@# as well. I'm interested to see what people come up with, and if you guys think that 4 monks will be as OP as I do.
Yea, Monks will be OP. I think three or even two monks will be OP. I think 3 would be best with a dedicated Nuker for the 4th class (Wizard or Demon Hunter).
A heavy Glass Cannon Meteor Wizard or a heavy glass cannon Rocket Demon Hunter for the 4th.
First build spams Lashing Tail kick.
2nd and 3rd spam Cyclone Strike for Group Heal and damage.
Stupid amounts of damage mitigation and healing with these 3 builds.
I can agree to this. I think Monks have very good synergy with other monks. I don't think 4 monks would be OP; they're not the heaviest damage dealers, they're not the best meat shields, and they don't have much range at all. 4 Monks is definitely a very good combination though, which can't be said about all classes (e.g. 4 Witch Docs, I think).
Stacking mantras and giving all of them a group heal and obsidian mystic ally would be pretty baller though.
Interesting builds Meekle. I was honestly most interested to see what you would come up with (yes I knew you would post some lol.) Care to go into a little bit, why the slight differences? Making the four I made I kinda had the feeling the bet combo wouldn't be diversity but very very similar builds, much like what you came up with. I'm especially interested in why you have the same rune in ally for each of them. The Monk isn't the class I've spent the most time looking into so I haven't quite gotten into all the skills yet. I get the similarities, but am interested in the different passives, and why lashing kick spam?
There's a wiz build for those three monks, threw it together pretty quickly, but it looks pretty good. Only put the armor in for the extra AP for more spamming, conflag for obvious reasons, thought about Hydra but with the nerf I really don't like that spell anymore. Could also go with slow time instead of frost nova and go with crimson, if the wiz got in and dropped the bubble for the monks, then got out pretty fast, it would be insane damage.
Just for !@#$s and giggles here's a DH build too lol (isn't insomnia awesome : /)
It's not a rocket build, but with the crazy buff to RoV its much better than a rocket build. The only thing I don't like about it is the third passive, would use bow in this case, cause its the middle ground between fast and strong, and with both a really heavy hitting AoE and rapid fire I wanted something in the middle, but if you went with either of the other options I would go with Steady Aim as I don't see keeping the distance to be as much of an issue.
Incidentally, this DH build would work really well with two monks and the above wiz build :D.
Edited by Sasukekun on 1/26/2012 5:06 AM PST
Well I'll start by saying those 3 builds were done pretty quickly and without any critical thought like I usually do but I wouldn't mind getting into it more so I'll see if I can touch them up a bit.
I chose Earth Ally for them all because they aren't team play skills. It only benefits the Monk that casts it and a 50% increase in life is huge and works really really really really well with Mantra of Healing Indigo. Yes, all those reallys were necessary.
So the first thing I did was load up my Solo Inferno Monk build (!!!) because it had a good balance of Survivability and damage. Playing solo means you have to cover a lot of extra angles and have extra survivability. So I adjusted from there. All the Monks will be at the front lines taking hits so they all need to be somewhat "tankish" but not so much so as a Solo build, I would think. So I made the slight shifts into more damage. Replaced Breath of Heavens for Cyclone Strikes for extra damage and replace one BoH with Lashing Tail kick for a pure damage attack. The amount of survivability is still a lot. In fact, now that I think about it, it's even more than before since there are 3 Mantras. So time to adjust again!
Damage Focused with Resolve and Transcendence.
Middle ground with Earth Ally, Transcendence, and Healing Cyclone Strike.
Survival Focused with Earth Ally, Transcendence, Healing Cyclone Strike, and Concussion.
The first build goes really well with the Wizard build you posted because it does heavy fire damage. I chose air ally because it does good aoe damage and it gains Spirit for me which means more Tail Kicks.
The second build tries to be survival and damage based. Crippling Wave rune increases all damage (hopefully that means for the group too. If not, Crimson would be better or Sweeping Wind like the first build). Cyclone Strike Heals the Group, Deals damage, and triggers Guiding Light. Earth Ally is for increased survivability. If the first build dies, hopefully this will be enough to not follow in its path during tough fights.
The third builds focuses the most on Survivability which is only different from the second build with an Obsidian rune on Crippling Wave.
So you have a Wizard that goes extreme damage and buffs all fire damage.
A Damage focused Fire Monk with some survivability elements.
A support focused Monk that can deal some good damage but also heal.
And a Heavier Survival Monk to cover everyone's butts better.
This covers all areas, extreme and in-between, of build types.
Interesting. I like it.
It's interesting to me, because if you take a 4 player group of different classes, it works out best for them to complement each other and work together towards buffs and control allowing each to do a little more damage, since they are all providing a portion of the needed utility.
If you were to take each of those different classes using inferno solo builds you'd probably be lacking in damage because your over doing the control in mitigation. But it seems like four of the same class you would all use fairly similar builds with only minor differences to cover a few different situations. I really like the use of Mystic Ally in these builds though, because it essentially doubles the amount of players in the group, not quite since there is a wizard but still. The only class that seems to be able to compete with 4 monks, would be 4 witch doctors all using summoning builds, that would be INSANE, but I think it could cause issues on average computers with that many summons out.
What are you thoughts on Sweeping Wind, in general I don't really like it too much, its not that the damage won't be good, but it seems like you would have only two options in using it. One would be to spam it 6 times to get full stack up the other would be use it twice, then deadly reach, use it twice then deadly reach and so on. And that assumes that when you use it again it resets the duration. It would almost work better with exploding palm so that your keeping the duration on each one running while keeping their effects up.
This makes me curious about one thing. What would happen if 4 monks surrounded a monster (maybe it will also work on bosses? I dunno...), and all do this at the same time?:
that would, to my mind, AT least work like an 8 second root. very powerful imo...if you only wanted the root you could go for the indigo rune instead too (12s)...
Another possibility is that it'll one-shot the monster (again, maybe even the boss) with glitchy, continuous damage (blizz playtesters gogogo!)
Edited by bluewolf on 1/26/2012 6:16 PM PST
I don't doubt they could be in the right hands, but in general I don't think so. But the thing is that Monks do it the best. Mantras alone make 4 monks better than 4 of any other class.
The Witch Doctor does come close, maybe even equal to the Monk, with all the summons and dots and such, they can be very good as a group. The thing is that there isn't as good synergy amongst the other classes with themselves. Not saying they aren't good with themselves, but just that Monks have better synergy with themselves.
I didn't use those but I was tempted with Circle of Protection. I just thought that it was a skill slot that could be better used with something else, but it wouldn't hurt to stick in one of them. As for Serenity that is an interesting idea. If lvl 7 runes make it at least 6 seconds, that means you reduce your damage in half. (Because the total time it would be activated would last half the time before the first person could use it again.) That would be seriously worth considering. And that doesn't seem far fetched either, considering it would only be one second per level of runestone.
The only issue I see with it, is getting that lvl 7 rune stone, I'm guessing that we won't see them til the last third of ACT III, maybe not even til the last act. Golden are rumored to be the rarest of the rune stones as well, although I'm not sure how this started, as I'd figure they would all have an even chance to drop in the case that one drops at all, but who knows.
Mantras are Epic in large groups. IMO though it would be worth having a barb for everything he brings PLUS http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#g
Or this Witch doctor for when you go against a boss / hard fight http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#Q!!Z
The other 2 classes don't bring any group buffs. Maybe that means they will be better suited for solo (more efficient, since group buffs aren't being wasted on not having anyone around)?
Edited by Candle on 1/27/2012 2:26 AM PST
I haven't got the beta so I'm not totally sure, but it sounds like 4 monks wouldn't be that fun, and for me that wins out over a minor advantage any day. Also, as it has been said monks lack huge amounts of damage (that can be used consistently), not a lot of health, very few debuffs and slow. While these can be to some extent covered by mantras, the variety that comes with other classes is, for me, unequalled in value. 2 Monks would be nice, 3 a bit much, and 4 overkill (more heavy on the 'over' than the 'kill').
I can totally understand that sort of mind set Evil. For me, and I expect Meekle as well, at least part of the fun, is in the details of min maxing. For me, its a very big part of the fun. Of course it wouldn't be fun without awesome gameplay to put those numbers to use, but it's certainly a very big part of it.
And I don't mean to make it sound like it is a MUST DO or something, and if this thread implies that, then my mistake, didn't mean to put that forth.
Wizards have AMAZING synergy with all the other classes. Slow Time alone is a good reason to bring a Wizard. With the 30% increase to atk speed, they essentially have Heroism from WoW, which is I think a 30% increase to atk speed as well, or something close. You drop that on the group in the last 35% of a bosses health, or at the start of a huge group of monsters, and its going to increase your damage a great deal.
The thing about monks not having a lot of high consistent damage is that neither do other classes, with cost of those moves considered no class has a spammable high damage ability. And with 4 monks you can have pretty much everything you need to be slowed slowed as well. The thing about 4 monks is that they complement the weaknesses of a monk that would be there if played solo.
Although there is a very strong way of building a group of all different classes as well. I actually just finished the first draft of a blog for my clan that goes into it in detail, but its really long so I won't post it here, but if you guys would want to see it I can post you a link.
4 inner sancs would be like SC2 and having 4 sentry's at your choke point.
It would be a rediculous way to CC waves apon waves of mobs or isolate a boss and keep him away from your allies.
I can just see 4 monks rotating their inner sancs to permanently keep a boss pinned down or to funnel a large group of really hard mobs one at a time to just make any fight super easy.
Practical? not really.
I'm actually more curious about what using 4 inner sanctuaries (or I guess 3 might be able to do it) on one mob would do in terms of what happens in the middle? Does it get locked in place? Does it get bumped outside of the four auras? Does it take chip damage as long as it stays inside the area (in which case, is this like a reckoning bomb that would possibly one shot a boss due to glitchy damage)...etc...
For me, and I expect Meekle as well, at least part of the fun, is in the details of min maxing. For me, its a very big part of the fun.Oh yes it is! Making builds is half the fun and fine tuning them is a part of that. I don't have to play the best build ever but whatever build I come up with will be made to the very best that I can come up with. It's a challenge and it's fun to create things.
The fun isn't always in playing. Sometimes the fun is in achieving. Having long drawn out fights with a high survivability build so that you don't die is sometimes the best way to achieve.
Monks have a ton of Debuffs. Most builds usually just have 1 debuff that is usually a slow and that's about it. The Monk has more debuffs than any other class. In fact, Crippling Wave's runes alone have 3 debuffs which is more than the standard Slow and Increased damage debuffs the other classes have.
The Monk may not have many (I can only think of one way) to slow outside of melee range but it has multiple ways of increasing the distance between enemies.
For me, part of the fun would be min/maxing my entire group. That is, figuring out the combination that:
- Is the hardest to kill while
- Doing the most damage and
- Clearing everything as quickly as possible
I doubt that's 4 monks with the same build, but it might be 4 monks with different builds, as this post suggests. It's hard to imagine losing the mantras for something else.
I might try to roll with 3 monks and a barbarian.
better set of monks:
might be better if two monks were barbs though
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