Diablo® III

Opinions from a Hardcore D2 Player

Some may know or remember me from Hardcore mode on USEast realms as Rydia (LazyNCrazy). One of the greatest things about Diablo 2, was it's hard to reach max level of 99. I made it to 98 atleast half a dozen times, but never reached 99. A couple of times i died, from lag or being a sucker to a duel. The others i just gave up or the ladder reset before i had a chance. I recently tried the latest ladder after taking a few years off, I think it reset in October 2011. I was the 3rd Sorc to hit 95. But at that point I soon realized I was one of the few high level legit players. Possibly the only one amongst bots and cheaters. At that point I decided to retire from D2 for good. Obviously I knew botting and hacks were around before, but not to this extent where almost every single player was involved. I guess there were other factors as well such as work, and I just didn't want to sacrifice anymore precious time.

The first thing I would like to talk about is D3's easy to obtain max level of 60. I think it's a big mistake taking away the almost unreachable goal that everyone has in the back of there mind. I understand what Blizzard is doing with Inferno and the challenge it will be. But I think for me personally, getting to 99 was almost 75% of the game for me. I know a lot of people will attack me and say "nobody cares". That is fine, this is just my opinion. I can understand another reason why they did this because of the outleveling of content and to leave room for a higher level cap in future expansions. So here's my solution to this: Just have Normal, Nightmare, and Hell only. Normal has max level 31 monsters. Nightmare has max level 46 monsters, and Hell has max level 61 monsters. Monsters will level with you, so they will always be a challenge. Level 50 will be the new Level 90 from D2. Hardest elite items will have an item level of 50 to 55. Who ever creates a game will determine the monster levels in that game. You must be atleast 5 levels below the game creator or higher. ie level 53 person makes game, only 48 or higher can join. To me this makes a lot of sense and it makes everyone happy. Without this the only end game goal is finding items for the sake of finding items. Which leads to other problems. Why ever use "Good Items" when the end game goal is just finding items, so all i'll want to use is "Magic Find/Gold Find Items".

The second thing I would like to talk about is duping, botting, and hacks. I think D3 moving to ONLINE ONLY mode is a great step to combat such threats. I have noticed some threads of people talking about how they hate online only mode. For me I don't think it's that big a deal. Among the D2 population I think it's a safe bet that around 99.999% played on BNet compared to single player. With online only mode, it will give Blizzard a lot more control and security of what goes on, and that is all good if they can keep hacks to a minimum. I don't know a lot about how hacks work, I just know it has something to do with looking at packets coming and going. I would be interested to hear what blizzard plans on doing to stop these, but I guess they probably can't say much since it would let hackers know what exactly they have in place. Recently I noticed on the forums that someone has already discovered a form of dupe. I find this very troubling, especially with an RMAH involved. I just hope Blizzard doesn't drop the ball on this one like they did with D2.

Finally the last thing I would like to talk about is the 4 player limit as well as Dueling in public games. To me a 4 player limit is perfect for co-op play. It does get too messy on the screen with anything higher. I can understand why this is a problem for some people. This is why i think they should make an optional 8 player game, or heck 16 player game, but with no monsters just where people can hang out, show off some of their cool gear and most importantly duel. Have teams or just do 1 on 1's. Now I know people will say that's what "Arena" is for. Arena is great but.. you can't really meet people that way or practice etc. Since Arena won't even have a ranking system as far as I know it's just gear based matching system. Why not just let people spar for fun and chat. This was one of the biggest things that made D2 a success. As well make Item finding more important. A lot of the people that complained about hostiling was because of griefers etc. This makes everyone happy. Create an optional game called a meeting room, or duel room with a higher player limit.

I'm sure most of these changes will never happen because it would take way too long to implement with the current system in place, and god knows how impatient everyone is for a release date. This is just how I wish things could have been. Although I still remain optimistic that D3 will be a megahit. Part of me will always remember the joy of nearing that elusive level 99, which was always greater than finding items. Anyways I would like to here feedback on some of my ideas that I have. Anything would be great, even criticism. Thanks.


TLDR: Will item finding be enough for you? Will you miss the hard to reach goal of level 99 from D2? Are you concerned Botting will ruin D3? Will Arena be better than dueling freely in 8 player games?
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You bring up a lot of good points.

02/02/2012 06:46 PMPosted by Rydiâ
The first thing I would like to talk about is D3's easy to obtain max level of 60. I think it's a big mistake taking away the almost unreachable goal that everyone has in the back of there mind.


They did the same thing with WOW, putting a lower level for the start gives them a new market when they release "Higher Levels" This in turn brings in more money for blizzard, which everyone knows they like. Honestly to me as long as it is still a challenge to beat all the modes when you max out then I think it is fine.

02/02/2012 06:46 PMPosted by Rydiâ
The second thing I would like to talk about is duping, botting, and hacks. I think D3 moving to ONLINE ONLY mode is a great step to combat such threats. I have noticed some threads of people talking about how they hate online only mode. For me I don't think it's that big a deal. Among the D2 population I think it's a safe bet that around 99.999% played on BNet compared to single player.


In all honesty I knew a lot of people, including myself, who didn't play anything but single player, or who got tired of all the crappy players that just got in the way or did nothing but take loot. I'd estimate only about 75% being online only. This being said though I still agree with switching to online only. When I play I'm most likely going to be connected to my home internet anyway so whats the point of being upset that I have to use the internet? Lag happens, people need to get over that fact.

02/02/2012 06:46 PMPosted by Rydiâ
Finally the last thing I would like to talk about is the 4 player limit as well as Dueling in public games. To me a 4 player limit is perfect for co-op play. It does get too messy on the screen with anything higher. I can understand why this is a problem for some people. This is why i think they should make an optional 8 player game, or heck 16 player game, but with no monsters just where people can hang out, show off some of their cool gear and most importantly duel. Have teams or just do 1 on 1's. Now I know people will say that's what "Arena" is for. Arena is great but.. you can't really meet people that way or practice etc. Since Arena won't even have a ranking system as far as I know it's just gear based matching system. Why not just let people spar for fun and chat. This was one of the biggest things that made D2 a success. As well make Item finding more important. A lot of the people that complained about hostiling was because of griefers etc. This makes everyone happy. Create an optional game called a meeting room, or duel room with a higher player limit.


I never thought anything of the 4 player limit other than, "awesome now i dont have to worry about my screen being cluttered from everyone at once" but you make an awesome point and I hope that blizzard sees this post and creates, if not now maybe in the future, a meeting room or duel room like you described.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
2985
Where you have made multiple valid points, I have to point out one fatal flaw. There was not, is not, nor will not ever be anything fun, engaging, or challenging about a mindless grind. This was DiabloII's main problem. Once your gear and level reached a certain point, the game became terribly mundane. Hopefully DiabloIII strives to fix this with Inferno mode, as well as other possible "end game features"
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02/02/2012 07:16 PMPosted by Kirinokousak
Where you have made multiple valid points, I have to point out one fatal flaw. There was not, is not, nor will not ever be anything fun, engaging, or challenging about a mindless grind. This was DiabloII's main problem. Once your gear and level reached a certain point, the game became terribly mundane. Hopefully DiabloIII strives to fix this with Inferno mode, as well as other possible "end game features"


I agree with this... Getting to max level simply to get to max level doesn't interest me at all. The moment I out-level everything and it's simply a matter of making numbers go higher, I quickly lose interest.

I really like the idea that the difficulty in Inferno will be constant. It won't be something that I can simply out-level.
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I agree with this... Getting to max level simply to get to max level doesn't interest me at all. The moment I out-level everything and it's simply a matter of making numbers go higher, I quickly lose interest.I really like the idea that the difficulty in Inferno will be constant. It won't be something that I can simply out-level.


With my Idea you never out level the content.

Here's an example

Player = level 55 creates a hell game all monsters starting from act 1 are atleast level 55 or higher. Max level possible creatures can be is 61 just like inferno.
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Man, all these "hardcore D2" players with their "opinions" lately.

Opinions are like !@#$%^-s. Everyone has one, and no one wants to see yours.
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[quote="39878442318"]
Without this the only end game goal is finding items for the sake of finding items. Which leads to other problems. Why ever use "Good Items" when the end game goal is just finding items, so all i'll want to use is "Magic Find/Gold Find Items". quote]

I love all these tools who rage flame against the "grinding" of a game focused on experience and leveling...but are quick to praise magic finding and loot driven play...because killing monsters for hours on end for no other purpose but to get items is in NO WAY grinding...no...not at all....lol....~*sarcasm*~

The only difference is one is driven by skill, if blizzard would actually make the game HARD, or if its a super easy-mode game then its time invested

Vs.

Time invested + randomness


I actually think D2 had it right, appreciated the intelligent post.
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Fun gameplay is more important than "higher numbers". Having an end game mode where the monsters will always be higher level is a much more interesting grind than "pick the right build to survive hell then grind for 50 levels"

Just create a new "Level 99". Like seeing how many playthroughs of Hell Inferno you can get in Hardcore mode. Seems a lot more entertaining to me.
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29 Human Warrior
165
So you are basically saying make D3 just like D2 with a different story and different graphics. Sorry I want an update to the Diablo series. You might of loved doing nothing but Baal runes till you did ubers. Then doing ubers till level cap, sorry doing one part of the game till you feel like pulling your hair out, due to the boredom. Basically all of the things that you want to change is what makes this game better than D2. So I will have to say a big no.
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Ppl spent a lot of time making and re-making the same class.... that being said, hitting a lvl 99 on D3 would be much easier because ppl would be playing the same character and simply changing skills.

My opinion is that I loved making and re-making classes. Loved the challenge of rushing my new characters and seeing how far I could get them before putting in skill points. Loved all the things that Blizzard wants to put a stop to.

Were there "perfect" builds in D2... kinda. Then for D3 you should have the same thing but allow multiple skills to be equal or close to equal. That's it! Don't simply allow ppl to flip flop skills willy nilly.

Overall, I think players will get bored of D3 a lot faster than D2. I know this is true for me because the fun was in creating a new character from scratch and building that character to certain specifications. Now..... one character per class pretty much. 2 years after release... you'll be playing the same barb or dh you did at launch. This is disappointing.
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02/03/2012 09:15 PMPosted by Callouswrath
So you are basically saying make D3 just like D2 with a different story and different graphics. Sorry I want an update to the Diablo series. You might of loved doing nothing but Baal runes till you did ubers. Then doing ubers till level cap, sorry doing one part of the game till you feel like pulling your hair out, due to the boredom. Basically all of the things that you want to change is what makes this game better than D2. So I will have to say a big no.


You have no idea what your talking about, do you...


Um, that's all D2 was. If you bring up PvP, I will punch you in the nuts.
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02/02/2012 06:46 PMPosted by Rydiâ
Finally the last thing I would like to talk about is the 4 player limit as well as Dueling in public games. To me a 4 player limit is perfect for co-op play. It does get too messy on the screen with anything higher. I can understand why this is a problem for some people. This is why i think they should make an optional 8 player game, or heck 16 player game, but with no monsters just where people can hang out, show off some of their cool gear and most importantly duel. Have teams or just do 1 on 1's. Now I know people will say that's what "Arena" is for. Arena is great but.. you can't really meet people that way or practice etc. Since Arena won't even have a ranking system as far as I know it's just gear based matching system. Why not just let people spar for fun and chat. This was one of the biggest things that made D2 a success. As well make Item finding more important. A lot of the people that complained about hostiling was because of griefers etc. This makes everyone happy. Create an optional game called a meeting room, or duel room with a higher player limit.


I really like the idea of an 8 player option for dueling and or trading. I think I will miss these aspects of diablo 2. Possibly a separate area without monsters/dungeons just enough to trade and have an outside dueling area.
Edited by Locdog on 2/3/2012 10:07 PM PST
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I agree about online only for hack reasons; but for me personally, I found D2 only fun in the online experience. Single player got boring imo...

Regarding more players, it might be cool if they have more pvp options in the future that maybe entail more than 4 people... also, is there any word or confirmation if 1v1 pvp exists in some format still?
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With my Idea you never out level the content.

Here's an example

Player = level 55 creates a hell game all monsters starting from act 1 are atleast level 55 or higher. Max level possible creatures can be is 61 just like inferno.


Problem with this is that only the end-game will have the hardest mobs. Or if you turn them all to 61, how is it different than Inferno? I don't really see how this system is useful. It's not a terrible idea, just Blizzard doesn't want people running one or two zones like the majority of D2 end-game.

And like other said, there aren't many who enjoy grinding for hours just to see a 97 turn into a 98 and that 98 turn into a 99. I only played D2 to find the items that I could play with. Level was only significant to me in allowing me to equip what I found. And I'd imagine a lot of people were the same, or even more casual about it. I'm frankly quite excited that Inferno will be reachable, but perhaps not beatable unless you're good and have good gear.
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Achivements will remplace lvling grinding.
I dont think to get them all in hc will be an easy task.
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90 Orc Warrior
ten
19060
No thanks.

I prefer a large pool of achievements to a long boring level grind.
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I love the idea of having a Open map (town) for gathering of the masses. Come in talk, trade, relax, or duel. No questing here. Some people want nothing to do with a AH so this would be the next best thing.
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