Diablo® III

Latest Version Of Rapid Fire

So Rapid Fire used to be pretty lackluster. It seems that it's really decent single target now though.

The only thing that bugs me is the tooltip. It used to be broken down for you, but it seems really vague to me now.

The advanced tooltip just tells you that it does 228% weapon damage while channeled. How does that break down to damage per second or per whatever channeled spells tick? (Do channeled spells tick by your APS? How does that break down "per second"-wise for channeled skills?)

At what point do you inflict 228% weapon damage during the channel? Hope this makes sense, if anyone has more in depth information and break down of the new Rapid Fire I would like to learn.
Reply Quote
Posts: 133
It's still the same as before, if you do 6*38 you get the 228 that is discribed. I too dislike the advanced tool tip, I much preferred it before as it gives you more info to work with. You'll also notice the tool tip for strafe is the same and again, if you do the old maths it adds up to the discribed numbers.

Channeled spells are per second otherwise rapid fire would instantly drain your hatred.
Reply Quote
Thanks for the info.

The 6 is 6x attack speed right? The 38 is 38% weapon damage? I haven't seen the old tooltip I just remember hearing that it broke it down for you as opposed to the way it is today.

So does this all mean 38% damage per second is the final break down of Rapid Fire?
Reply Quote
Posts: 393
38% damage per arrow, 6 arrows per sec = 288% damage per second.
Edited by Evilrake on 2/7/2012 4:07 AM PST
Reply Quote
creates 228% weapon DPS, per second
it needs to be as idiot proof as possible bc you are trying to compare it to something like Impale which is 275% weapon * APS
so 228% weapons *APS...( where APS before the x6 rate is checked)
02/07/2012 04:07 AMPosted by Evilrake
38% damage per arrow, 6 arrows per sec = 288% damage per second.
so if it is 6 arrows a second, static it couldn't benefit from APS bonuses, or faster weapons.

the tooltip in patch 10 had said "6x normal rate", at 38% weapon damage per arrow
assume the mechanic is like this

normal attack speed
multiplies attack x6
sets damage at 38% primary weapon DPS (= 228% weapon / sec)
Cost set at 20 hate + 10 per second channeled [edit it is not 10/sec.. it is 10/sec if 1.00aps]
if shadow power is on *multiply* normal attack speed AND the rate of hatred channel cost
Edited by D3BETA on 2/7/2012 10:28 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 133

if shadow power is on *multiply* normal attack speed AND the rate of hatred channel cost


hatred channeled stays the same regardless of shadow power. Ideally the faster you can attack per second the more cost effective the skill is. So any build that has the rapid fire skill in it should be using dual crossbows and trying to stack IAS and damage of course to try and benefit as much as possible from the set cost of the skill. Other skills that increase attack speed are also usefull (like shadow power).

But yes regardless, they have simplified the tool tip, but the numbers have remained the same.

The skill is fire at 6 times your attack speed for 38% damage.
Not 6 attacks per second for 38% damage.

If it was static SP wouldn't help and it has been stated in other threads that it indeed does increase the attack speed. I realise I'm repeating what others have already said, just reinforcing it for those whom are unsure.

Also with regards to OP the skill hasn't changed stats wise so I don't see how you can say it WAS lackluster and is NOW a good single target skill.
Edited by Genesis on 2/7/2012 7:25 PM PST
Reply Quote

if shadow power is on *multiply* normal attack speed AND the rate of hatred channel cost


hatred channeled stays the same regardless of shadow power.

No.

RFs channel cost is dynamic, it is not set at all, let alone with shadow power.
If it was a set rate your 125 hatred would allow you to channel for over 10 seconds....now put on two journeyman slingshots and go ahead check if you can channell RF for more than 10 seconds.

As I have tested this empirically let me repeat... your channel cost for Rapid fire is NOT 10 per sec it is dynamic.
your actual APS, as well as Shadow power, multiplies the channel cost of rapid fire.

I deplete my 175 orb between 7.2 - 7.5 seconds with 2.09APS
5.5 seconds when shadow power is on
Edited by D3BETA on 2/7/2012 10:35 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 133
Do you know a way to calculate the cost of the skill with these modifiers zoid or is it something that we will have to figure out when we play.
Reply Quote
Do you know a way to calculate the cost of the skill with these modifiers
zoid or is it something that we will have to figure out when we play.


it seems to follow a channel cost at 10*attacks_per_sec
e.g. 10/6 per arrow (1.66)
so with 175 hatred you could channel for 15.5 seconds with a 1.00 aps weapon

1.71 aps, I'm getting a channel for ~9.5 seconds
2.09 aps I'm getting a channel for ~7.5 seconds

(175-20) / 2.09*10 = 7.41 seconds
(175-20) / 1.71*10 = 9.06 seconds

{times are off by up to 5%, human error}

so with vengeance
(175-50)/1.66 * 38%/175 = 20.2% damage per hatred

w/o vengeance
125-20/1.66 * 38%/125 = 19.15% damage per hatred

vengeance gives at best a 5% increase in efficiency, as well as the longevity

[edit] I thought it should be fixed
but my conclusion

hate use per #arrows of RF hitting targets to be > Impale
(#arrows*38) / ( #arrows * 1.66 + 20) > 275/25
you have to strike with >= 12 arrows, before RF becomes > than impale hatred wise.
(12*38) / (12*1.66 +20) > 11

with 2.00 aps it's 1 second of channel
so, RF is so efficient (38/1.66 during channel more than double impale) that it starts to over shadow impale for pure efficiency as early as 1.5 aps

the real question is why isn't impale better lol.. maybe it needs a native crit bonus
Edited by D3BETA on 2/8/2012 1:00 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 12
Very good information, thanks for sharing. I was up in the air as to which was better and this helps a lot.

Have you considered pairing it with a Marked for Death runed golden? 2 hatred per attack could make the skill much more efficient on bosses and the like.
Reply Quote

Also with regards to OP the skill hasn't changed stats wise so I don't see how you can say it WAS lackluster and is NOW a good single target skill.

The hatred cost has fluctuated if I recall correctly. It was pretty expensive a couple of months ago so Impale was clearly better.

Thanks for the information though guys.

Bear with me hear as I am probably going to sound stupid from this point on but I would appreciate some more clarification if possible.

So all channeled spells in general (Firebats, Disintegrate) tick according to APS? Meaning that all the resource costs are scaled up as well like with RF? What I can't wrap my head around is that if all these spells can tick faster with more APS, how can the damage stay the same? Does that make any sense?

I'm not exactly sure what the "1.66" is (cost per arrow?).

Next, if the Arrows can fire faster and faster the more APS you get, wouldn't that mean that the weapon damage changes?

creates 228% weapon DPS, per second
it needs to be as idiot proof as possible bc you are trying to compare it to something like Impale which is 275% weapon * APS
so 228% weapons *APS...( where APS before the x6 rate is checked)


This goes way over my head unfortunately. Why do it before 6x speed? Does the first line mean 228% DPS/second?

Sorry : /
Edited by D3BETA on 2/8/2012 9:37 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Druid
4600
Posts: 4,817

Next, if the Arrows can fire faster and faster the more APS you get, wouldn't that mean that the weapon damage changes?

sorry, let me clarify, I don't mean weapon DPS, I meant damage.

the tool tip is actually trying to tell us, as simply as possible, that rapid fire is 228% weapon so we can easily compare with your other skills. The nuances of how it works it is no different than any other skill so let me re- tooltip

it could say this;
Cost: 20 Hatred initially, and 1.66 per arrow
Fires arrows that produce 38% weapon damage as physical, at 6 times your rate.

I'd also like to point out that no matter what, tapping the mouse/key will produce at minimum 0.5 seconds of arrows... no matter how much you try to waste hatred. so you will never spend only 20.. it will be about 25 minimum cause 2-4 arrows will fly out

_________________________________________________________________________
let me be verbose with an example since math translates best

weapon: 48-49 damage
ring: 1-2 damage
dex: 100
aps: 1.00

[(weapon + rings)*.5 * dex] = 100 damage
* 1.00 aps = 100 DPS

each arrow is avg 38 damage because
(weapon + source)*.5 *.38 * dex = 38

you fire 1.00aps * 6 arrows a second
thats 6 arrows so = 228 dps (@1.66 hate per arrow + initial cost of 20)

double the APS to 2.00 and the char screen will now say 200 dps, but we know that your (weapon+sources)*.5 * dex = still 100 damage

each arrows is still 38, but you now fire 2.00aps * 6 arrows a second = 12 arrows, so 456 dps

Your hatred spend rate has also doubled, so RF has not gotten a better hatred/damage return, just a better damage/sec the same as any ability benefits from more APS
Edited by Korba on 2/8/2012 10:34 PM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]