Diablo® III

Diablo 3 skill tree.

29 Human Warrior
165
Posts: 14,137
02/13/2012 08:01 PMPosted by AmanOsan
Another issue is people play this game differently. If D2 and 3 are MEANT to be played over and over again as boss runs, then that changes this argument. I do not like doing that. I want to actually play the game like it was meant to be played. Straight through. This is why I prefer the old system.


But doing boss runs is what you did in D2, you did them over and over again. I highly doubt that you did not take part in the rushing to the higher levels, by the tone of your post. So why keep that failed mechanic. Where this game would be a mindless rush to level cap. Then rinse and repeat when you want a new build.

02/13/2012 08:01 PMPosted by AmanOsan
I do not care about ladder or having the BEST character around. Blizz is catering to these people and not the casual-moderate players.


Then you will not go much higher than nightmare. Somewhere around late hell/inferno will be beyond your skills. That part of the game is for the hardcore crowd. So your adventure ends there. From normal to that point is for the casual crowd. Where as the rest of the game is for the hardcore crowd. You have to remember that there will not be any new quests or stories that will be tied to those difficulty levels that does not exist in the earlier levels.

02/13/2012 08:01 PMPosted by AmanOsan
I also do not want to HAVE to rely on buying good gear, too. Another reason this game may be being taylor made. If Inferno is so hard that not eveyone can handle it, it becomes just as stupid as farming. Playing hours to get a few good drops? Now items are even more important? I guess I may be "trainering"


Diablo has always been about the gear. That has never changed, they are just making it more obvious now than before.

02/13/2012 08:01 PMPosted by AmanOsan
Yet another item is that this new system discourages MP. Why would you need help when you can change you skill set? I am not saying this needs to be like Team Fortress was hoping for more of that and less of Bullet Storm/Serious Sam.


So you only say teaming matters because you have to. Due to the fact the game is designed for teaming only. Sorry if you think that then you do not understand the Diablo series. MP has always been an option. Not a must have in order to succeed. That is unless you had a team centric build.

02/13/2012 08:01 PMPosted by AmanOsan
I see what some of you are saying, but you are just as blind to this as we you say us"nostalgics" are. Fewer options means less fun. Period. Blizz may be forcing people to play because of certain reasons while they give us a few more options in a different way.


D3 will have more options that what D2 ever hoped to give us. That is a fact, that you are too blind to see. There will be more builds that will be able to solo inferno than what was able to solo hell in D2.
Posts: 5
Now this is my kind of player :D

Look for me in hardcore on the top.. we can rock it together :-P



WoC


29 Human Warrior
165
Posts: 14,137
Doesn't bother me that much. I mean don't put 80 hours a week into the game and you're fine. Then by that time, the expansion will be out with 2 more character classes with different skill sets and probably an expanded skill tree for everyone.

Just don't overplay the game, get a job, a girlfriend....whatever


I am looking forward to their first expansion for this game. I would like to see the Mystic return then, also new classes. As well as the return of the talisman system.
Posts: 1,765
Diablo 3 skills unlock as you level up. You choose 6 to use.
Diablo 3 passives unlock as you level up. You Choose 3 to use.
With this you have lots of choice and optimization, with the ability to respec.

The satisfaction you get is from unlocking the full potential of your character.
Posts: 39
02/12/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Humphreace
If you have to be forced to do something you probably dont wanna do it. Nothing says you cant replay for fun I probably will at some point.


I think that forcing people to do things which are seemingly inconvenient in video games can sometimes be fun and challenging, and it can also make a game more addictive. Persistent gamers are all but vanished nowadays. They don't remember why the arcade-style game can be fun. Think back to the arcade-style games, like mario, which used to be popular. You had to start over if you died. On the surface, this just seems an annoyance.

Why did people keep coming back to it? Why was such an annoyance part of the fun? I suggest that it was mastering a game that made it fun. Most can master a game if you get to start over from the last checkpoint or save the game whenever. Most can master a game if it's all about paying real money for good items. Most can master a game when you can switch skills whenever you want. I don't think that all those things are bad, and I don't think that D3 will be too easy by any stretch. However, it's not an arcade-game-style difficulty which comes from having mistakes permanently punished like D2, and having to replay the game again and again (which I was a fan of because I'm oldschool, but most weren't I guess). The difficulty doesn't come from the game itself so much. The difficulty comes from trying to find the coolest build and the best items. Don't worry people, D3 will still be fun though. It's Blizzard!
Posts: 1,765
The game still gives you choices. Allot more then in Diablo 2.

You are given enemies that have their own abilities and not every build will suite the situation. The game is meant to be solo-able, so you will inevitably need a resepc option. Having respec options makes permanent choices an illusion.

In the higher difficulties of the game you will have enemies that get randomized abilities. So you will never really be optimal for the fight ahead. You will be challenged, you will be weighed, and you will be found wanting.

In the higher difficulties the fun will come from trying new builds, and trying to overcome challenges that you are not ready for. You will never out level Inferno so you will never be found unchallenged.
Posts: 168
02/13/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Daruthan
However, it's not an arcade-game-style


Smartest thing you said, and I have seen on the forums to date.

Yes indeed, diablo3 is not an arcade-game-style...
Edited by CarlSagan on 2/14/2012 1:52 AM PST
02/13/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Daruthan
If you have to be forced to do something you probably dont wanna do it. Nothing says you cant replay for fun I probably will at some point.


I think that forcing people to do things which are seemingly inconvenient in video games can sometimes be fun and challenging, and it can also make a game more addictive. Persistent gamers are all but vanished nowadays. They don't remember why the arcade-style game can be fun. Think back to the arcade-style games, like mario, which used to be popular. You had to start over if you died. On the surface, this just seems an annoyance.

Why did people keep coming back to it? Why was such an annoyance part of the fun? I suggest that it was mastering a game that made it fun. Most can master a game if you get to start over from the last checkpoint or save the game whenever. Most can master a game if it's all about paying real money for good items. Most can master a game when you can switch skills whenever you want. I don't think that all those things are bad, and I don't think that D3 will be too easy by any stretch. However, it's not an arcade-game-style difficulty which comes from having mistakes permanently punished like D2, and having to replay the game again and again (which I was a fan of because I'm oldschool, but most weren't I guess). The difficulty doesn't come from the game itself so much. The difficulty comes from trying to find the coolest build and the best items. Don't worry people, D3 will still be fun though. It's Blizzard!


Maybe they kept coming back to it because that was the only kind of game around then? Or because that's how arcade games get the most money? Mario very quickly lost that type of system, and for good reason. Yea, you get amazingly good at the first few levels because that was the only way to practice the later ones. But those first levels sucked after the 4234th time. It's why people would rush through the D2.

Forcing people to do unfun stuff doesn't work well.
I played D1 and D2 in my time and when I started on D2 the skill tree was one of the most annoying features. You had to learn skills you don't want to use just get to the higher tier ones and when you got there, every point put into the lower end of the skill tree was wasted.

The same for the mana system. Maybe fifteen seconds full power, then the mana was empty and you had to rely on potions.

Some of the problems with the skill tree were fixed much later but bringing the synergies into the game, but the underlying problem still remain, it is extremely restricting and even punishes players for trying something different then a small number of cookie cutter builds.

02/13/2012 04:27 PMPosted by Zexion
Seems that all the people in favor of the new system is using Inferno as an excuse for it, something none of us have seen. I liked the old skill system because I could make a build that was MINE. With this format, there's nothing stopping the person next to me, from being an exact duplicate of me. The only thing that's giving me hope for this new system, are passives.


Whenever you are in a public game, I'm going to join, then make the exact same build as you. Then say I came up with it. Then I'm going to keep talking about how unique my build is. I hope you prepare for this
Posts: 1,765
Whenever you are in a public game, I'm going to join, then make the exact same build as you. Then say I came up with it. Then I'm going to keep talking about how unique my build is. I hope you prepare for this


Then I'm going to create a new character and name it the exact same name as yours. I'm going to recopy your skill set and run around as a duplicate of you. :P

Why? Because it will be fun and hilarious at the same time.
02/12/2012 10:50 AMPosted by D3BETA
pretend you cant swap skills. problem solved.


Pretend you can't use the same gear for every build. Problem solved.
02/13/2012 04:27 PMPosted by Zexion
Seems that all the people in favor of the new system is using Inferno as an excuse for it, something none of us have seen. I liked the old skill system because I could make a build that was MINE. With this format, there's nothing stopping the person next to me, from being an exact duplicate of me. The only thing that's giving me hope for this new system, are passives.


This is laughable.

By "MINE" you mean what you read and copied down on a website.

If not then your precious unique build had already been tried by countless others and is found to be less effective than the optimal build.

You are the poster child of someone falling prey to the illusion of false choice.
Posts: 1,765
By leveling your own character you unlock its potential.
The main reason you level is to become stronger.
Leveling doesn't have to give you points, it just has to give you options.
Diablo 3 has leveling and options.

If you think leveling a new character while playing the same story line is a new experience, then make a new character. Since while leveling you unlock the same abilities at the same levels in a skill tree the same way you would unlock abilities in the new system. By leveling your character. Those abilities will still be given to you on the same level they become available.
Edited by StormReaver on 2/14/2012 7:50 AM PST
Posts: 1,765
D2 had 15 different types of sorcs end of story replay value there 4 sure :D


ROFL. Exactly. Especially when all spells were still unlocked at the same levels.

Maybe if skill trees were random you would get a completely different experience.
But wait, then you would just re-roll till you get the skills you want on the bottom of the list.
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