Diablo® III

+Hatred Regen Items at Level 60

Something interesting I looked into:

So far in the beta, our experience with the DH has been that we need to generate hatred and we need to spend hatred. Generally, spells that spend it are better (ie rapid fire). So I looked into what the level 60 Hatred regeneration items would be like... this could get interesting:
http://diablonut.incgamers.com/affix/regeneration-hatred

According to that ^ it means that the top level items could have this affix:
Increases Hatred regeneration by 2.68-3.33 per second


Let's (modestly) say at level 60 you have 4 items that each gave about 3.00 Hatred per second. You therefore have 12.00 Hatred regenerating per second, and since Rapid Fire only uses 10 per second (I believe), your Hatred would stay maxed and negate the need to generate it.


This is probably intended, but I thought it was pretty cool. Definitely shows how the gameplay will change later on...
Edited by D3BETA on 2/14/2012 2:31 AM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 131
It has been pointed out in this thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015164391 that channeling is dynamic and the faster the attack speed the greater the depletion rate of your hatred. Having said that, with that much hatred regeneration it would be difficult to use all of your hatred and that would be awesome.

Does anyone know if there will be any discipline regen at all or just hatred regen?
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3735
Posts: 4,817

http://diablonut.incgamers.com/affix/regeneration-hatred

but
"Database currently running on Beta patch #10"
obviously you can't know values till final release.

in regard to RF due to its dynamic range, the value of hate regen moves asymptotically (if you want to just hold still like a turret as long as possible) so a slower weapon can rapidly create longevity.
expressed simply as: Hate / (spend - regen)
as regen approaches spend, channel time rockets to infinity

the actual calc would be
RF time = (Hate orb - 20) / (6*1.66*aps - regen rate)

a 2-h at 1.00 APS channels just under 10 hate/sec... as you approach half that in regen (5/sec) your longevity will double to 34 seconds
the next 2.5 regen will double it again. to 70 seconds
the next 1.75 regen will double it again to 140 seconds

with 12/sec you could wield a 2-hander at 1.2APS infinitely
1.5APS for almost 1 min.


Does anyone know if there will be any discipline regen at all or just hatred regen?

except for preparation, and certain crit proc, I wouldn't bet on it.
Edited by Korba on 2/14/2012 9:09 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Dwarf Warrior
6890
Posts: 1,491
There's a base hatred regen rate as well. Looks like about 5/second.
Reply Quote
Posts: 7,259
I think what we'll probably end up seeing endgame, is the "generators" not being used for generating at all, but instead for the utility their runed counterparts provide (like bola + golden for discipline generation).
Reply Quote
How would you get hatred regen on 4 items? it's restricted to Cloaks, Hand Xbows, quivers

That's 3 at most. That also make for a pretty big difference in some of the math going on in this thread.
Edited by Athenian on 2/14/2012 11:33 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3735
Posts: 4,817
02/14/2012 10:14 AMPosted by Halloom
There's a base hatred regen rate as well. Looks like about 5/second.
quite sure this is off while channeling

As tested, depletes a 175 orb (vengeance) @ 2.09APS between 7.2 - 7.5 seconds

(175-20) / (1.66*6*2.09)
155/ 20.8 = 7.45

had I generated an additional 5/sec, a large change would occur
155/15.8 = 9.8

I forsee a change, (or perhaps need for change) on affix hate into +hate weighted against a DR, rather than hate/sec, static regen always has the complication of OP.
Edited by Korba on 2/14/2012 12:56 PM PST
Reply Quote
How would you get hatred regen on 4 items? it's restricted to Cloaks, Hand Xbows, quivers

That's 3 at most. That also make for a pretty big difference in some of the math going on in this thread.


Good to know this restriction, I'm sorry I didn't know this was common knowledge lol.


Either way, it looks like with these items (assuming patch 10 is the be all end all), that it will end up being like Blitzkrieg says...

Reading more of what Korba said, having a sustained 70 or 140 seconds is still pretty amazing. Most fights don't last that long if I remember right in D2 Hell, aside from bosses.
Edited by D3BETA on 2/14/2012 1:03 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3735
Posts: 4,817
02/14/2012 01:03 PMPosted by D3BETA
Most fights don't last that long if I remember right in D2 Hell, aside from bosses.

i think more to the point, you don't want to stand still that long, hopefully the challenge is greater in D3


As tested, depletes a 175 orb (vengeance) @ 2.09APS between 7.2 - 7.5 seconds

just thought, if i neglected this in my test than the 1.66/arrow is wrong. i'll have to devise a test to see if I can prove the regen is on/off during channel

I think if I do comparisons on fast vs slow weapons, the effective scale changing, that should prove a base rate.. i think,
ill have to look at the math more later
Edited by Korba on 2/14/2012 1:18 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,194
How would you get hatred regen on 4 items? it's restricted to Cloaks, Hand Xbows, quivers

That's 3 at most. That also make for a pretty big difference in some of the math going on in this thread.


Don't some set items bonuses give a bonus to hatred gen?
Reply Quote
85 Dwarf Warrior
6890
Posts: 1,491
02/14/2012 12:55 PMPosted by Korba
quite sure this is off while channeling


Well, that provides an interesting benefit to builds that don't use rapid fire or strafe to spend their power.
Reply Quote
02/14/2012 05:06 PMPosted by Halloom
quite sure this is off while channeling


Well, that provides an interesting benefit to builds that don't use rapid fire or strafe to spend their power.


Yeah for sure.

Hey just to clarify: Does hatred regenerate at all while channeling? I can't test it at the moment.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3735
Posts: 4,817
02/14/2012 06:57 PMPosted by D3BETA
Does hatred regenerate at all while channeling? I can't test it at the moment.
you can try... I think so, however my conclusion is dual wielding has something I can't account for. Here is my methodology

The base rate is 4 hate regenerated per second, the character sheet displays a rounded values, so you will only see integers, but make sure you check bow(s) + cloak
adding a 0.5 cloak still displays 4, while a 0.52 displays 5


it does seem to function during channel according to this test; 1.1 Cross bow, 175 hate, I got 21.6, and 21.8 seconds using stopwatch (assume < 5% error)

assuming 4/sec is on
21.7 seconds = (175-20)/ (6.6x - 4)
bullet cost = 1.688 approx

assuming 4/sec is off
21.7 seconds = (175-20)/ (6.6x)
bullet cost = 1.08 approx

predictions
dual weild 2.12aps setup (with extra 1.84 regen) if base 4 regen is on, the 1.1 xbow sample shows that bullet cost is 1.688, and my regen is 5.84/sec
seconds = (175-20)/((6*2.12*1.688) - 5.84) = 9.9 seconds

if base regen is off the 1.1 xbow sample shows that bullet cost is 1.08, and my regen is only 1.84/sec
seconds = (175-20)/ ((6*2.12*1.08) - 1.84) = 13 seconds

actual numbers
8.3
8.3
8.2
was confidant that the time would have been 10 seconds, and it clearly is much less.

so here is a non polluted test, no external ias, and no extra regen, single wielding a 1.6
(175-20)/ ((1.6*6*1.688)-4) = 12.69 seconds
I recorded 12.4 and 12.4, well that seems to match up close enough

dual wielding 1.6's says 1.84 aps
(175-20)/ ((1.84*6*1.688)-4) = 10.59
I got 9.8, 9.6, and 9.9 nearly a full second off?!
________________________________________________________________
I have 3 journeyman slingshots in the following testing
all 6 ias (1.7 listed aps) dual wielding (2.12 aps listed on all )
the values are the amount of +hate/sec on them, first value is first equipped (screen left), second is screen right.

.82 then .52 drain in 8.3 seconds
.52 then .82 drain in 8.2 seconds
0 then .82 drains in 8 seconds
0 then .52 drains in 8 seconds
.82 then 0 drains in 8 seconds
.52 then 0 drains in 8 seconds

the only way this solves
seconds = 155/(1.66*2.12*6-x) is when regen is between 2.5 to 3.5
dual wielding seems to compound this issue >.<
I give up.
Edited by Korba on 2/14/2012 9:25 PM PST
Reply Quote
Haha wait so what's your conclusion? I got lost around the predictions part.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3735
Posts: 4,817
single wield, it seems to hold up to predictions.
4 base hatred continues to regen while channeling, with 1.66 cost per arrow


duel wielding something is happening,
either the speed is wrong
cost per bullet is wrong
or hate regen is wrong

two many variables for a control to limit the changes to 1 for deduction,

the order in which I equip a 1.6 and 1.7 xbow results in two different listed APS since one of them is considered "primary" (right hand)

I already know from tests speed bonuses (penalties) are "cross wired" onto the other item >.<
as noted here
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015201923#2
Edited by Korba on 2/15/2012 12:45 AM PST
Reply Quote
AH okay, well nice stuff though...
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3735
Posts: 4,817
perhaps, this is the toggle issue

unlike my previous assumptions hatred spenders will list an APS toggle, switching hands when dual wielding different aps bows, even though it uses 1 animation.

impale, chakram, elemental arrow, even rapid fire, they all cause a toggle on your character screen aps should you weild two different base speed weapons

for RF it is of course a rapid toggle, that gives me some thoughts on what could be happening, but really no way of proving them.
Edited by Korba on 2/15/2012 12:46 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3735
Posts: 4,817
on the plus side I got a calc order on how APS is calculated on the character details screen

1.60 bow with 6% = 1.696 (even though the weapon lists 1.7)
rounds to 1.69

1.69 * increased attack speed rings+gloves total 10% = 1.859
rounds to 1.85

1.85 * 15% dual wield = 2.1275
rounds to 2.12 on char screen

so when dual wielding weapon ias only counts for the bow it is on
(which is weird since penalties are cross-wired see above)
Edited by Korba on 2/15/2012 1:45 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Dwarf Warrior
6890
Posts: 1,491
If the +15% increased attack speed of dual wielding flatly increased the hatred use by 15%, I think that would explain the discrepancy.

Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3735
Posts: 4,817
02/15/2012 02:58 AMPosted by Halloom
If the +15% increased attack speed of dual wielding flatly increased the hatred use by 15%, I think that would explain the discrepancy.

arrows cost @ 1.666*1.15 does, is boldly simple, and that's its appeal to me. it also means that dual wielding RF might be penalized.

I grabbed two initiates (1.2) to get my dual wield slowed down to 1.38
predictions is = 155/((1.38*6*1.666*1.15)-4) = 13 seconds

however, I am getting 15.2 and 15.2 seconds which is more in line without the 15%
155/((1.38*6*1.666)-4) = 15.8


____________________________________________________________________________
just to be dead on balls, I made screen cast grabs at 10fps, and imported them into the flash timeline to rule out as much human stop watch error as possible

Two initiates (1.38 aps) on a naked 13 with vengeance skill*
Hate drops from 175 to 155 on frame #31 (3.00s)
Rapid Fire skill goes grey on frame #180 (17.90s)
14.9 seconds, margin of error is +2 frames (0.40 seconds) so as much as 15.3 seconds
this leads to inflation cost of 2.4% up to 4.4%

My default 2.12 aps with 1.84 regen, + vengeance*
Hate drops to 155 on frame #64 (6.3s)
Rapid Fire skill goes grey on frame #143 (14.20s)
7.9 seconds, margin of error is +2 frames (0.40 seconds) so as much as 8.3 seconds
this leads to inflation cost of 15.6% up to 20.1%

so it might not be the dual wield exactly, and could be the stats/bows.... it's just more questions

*to be more thorough I suppose I should not use vengeance, though I wanted to have a longer time sample
Edited by Korba on 2/15/2012 9:26 AM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]