Diablo® III

Inferno heavy support monk w/ 2 mantras

I know when a lot of people see a build with 2 mantras they assume the build is gimped. I think there's value in it from a support stand point. There are times when your group needs healing and there are times when they need to do more damage (and take less). Start of each fight you want Mantra of Conviction up with Alabastor, mid-to-late fight you want Mantra of Healing up, I don't think you'll have the luxury of waiting 30 seconds to swap skills mid-battle.

Check it:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#eSXQRg!ZdU!cbccac

This is a heavy support centric build so you will not find any big damage dealers, group use only. Your duty is to help your teammates do more damage, lessen damage done by mobs and be there to lay down group heals and HoT's.
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#.g!!.Y Is what you are looking for. The fact that you didn't have this in the first place now makes me question the rest of the build, sorry. MoH and BoH is TOO much healing, for example. A lot of characters will just kill enemies before they are killed. Basic rule of thumb for Diablo is to only have enough defence to be safe. too much more after that just weights you down( Exp slower, MF slower, find globes slower).
Edited by Candle on 2/16/2012 7:20 AM PST
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Candle makes a good point. Also, your passive aren't built for buffing your party in Inferno. If thats your goal for a mantra monk.

I have created posts for mantra builds. here is what i would use:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#eZQXRg!Ydf!cYccaY

The idea is you keep the MoC 3 second buff up for 40% additional dmg when you have any kind of boss fight going on. Between fights or in the case that during a hard encounter you need some defense and healing you would switch to MoH.

Spam the shiled every 10 seconds till the crowd gets under control then switch back to 40% dmg.

Rinse and repeat. My wife likes playing the support roles and this is a build that she and I have talked about.

We both plan on playing monk and this would be handy for when we run 4 man's with our family and friends in Inferno.

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02/16/2012 07:06 AMPosted by Candle
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#.g!!.Y Is what you are looking for. The fact that you didn't have this in the first place now makes me question the rest of the build, sorry. MoH and BoH is TOO much healing, for example. A lot of characters will just kill enemies before they are killed. Basic rule of thumb for Diablo is to only have enough defence to be safe. too much more after that just weights you down( Exp slower, MF slower, find globes slower).


Ahhhh, no.

Boom of Protection, given a player with "100 health", it will "absorb" 25 health for only 10 seconds.

Heavenly Body, given a player with normal "100 health", it will increase their health to 130 until Mantra is cancelled or expires.

Also do you understand the difference between a direct heal and an HoT? From your rude response I would assume you don't understand the difference and why you need both of them.
Edited by Vixen on 2/16/2012 11:07 AM PST
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Candle makes a good point. Also, your passive aren't built for buffing your party in Inferno. If thats your goal for a mantra monk.

I have created posts for mantra builds. here is what i would use:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#eZQXRg!Ydf!cYccaY

The idea is you keep the MoC 3 second buff up for 40% additional dmg when you have any kind of boss fight going on. Between fights or in the case that during a hard encounter you need some defense and healing you would switch to MoH.

Spam the shiled every 10 seconds till the crowd gets under control then switch back to 40% dmg.

Rinse and repeat. My wife likes playing the support roles and this is a build that she and I have talked about.

We both plan on playing monk and this would be handy for when we run 4 man's with our family and friends in Inferno.


Comparing passives:
We both have Exalted Soul, so that is a wash, let's look at the other two:

Guardians Path - with 2H, regenerates spirit 20% faster
One With Everything - your resistance to all elements is equal to your highest elemental resitance

compared to:
Trascendence - gain life for each spirit spent
Guiding Light - damage buff when using a direct heal

Pros of my passives:
20% faster spirit regen, better survivability via resistances

Pros of your passives:
more heals (?) when I spend spirit, another damage buff

I still prefer my passives, a dead monk can = a wipe, I'll take a very nice resistance buff over slightly more damage over a short period of time - also I should not be taking much damage so the extra heals are not needed - I WILL need more spirit regen though.
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Vix good to see you again on Monk forums.

You make a good point about Indigo vs Heavenly body.

25% shield of max hp or 30% more vit.

now you used 100 HP and 30% more vit would indicate that your vit is @ 10+30% or 3 to make your hp 130.

so the idea of a passive more HP always vs a shield that abosorbs 25% of your hp.

I still like the shield because it can be reapplied.

So shield, 10 seconds, shield, 10 sec, shield. = 75% HP absorbed vs the passive 30%

The shield is still strong because it can be reapplied.
The Vit bonus doesn't heal that 30% so you will need a heal to get the full life and once its gone there is no bonus to reaplly the 30% again and again.

Indigo just seems to be the better choice because of no cooldowns for mantras.
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also great thing about the shield.

75 spirit to gain 75% HP absorb? Sounds better than a direct huge cure from Cyclone. LOL

Just came to mind when thinking about it.

Along with Trans. thats 25spirit x 118.6heal = 2,965 direct heal everytime you reapply the shield.
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I can see how the shield strategy might be viable if every player in the group was sustaining the same amount of damage continuously. And that same amount of damage was exactly 25% of their total health. Any less and you receive less benefit per spirit spent, any more and you actually lose out to the static +30% health from Heavenly Body.

Let's put some more numbers to this we'll continue with 100 base HP points for simplicity.

Let's say there is some AoE spell that does 50 HP damage per player (obviously each player will have different HP and different defense, but again to keep it simple)...

1) you have to know when this huge AoE spell is going to hit beforehand otherwise shield gains you no benefit
2) even if you had the foresight to see this damage coming, each of your players will be at 75 HP total (not 100), 50-25 = 25. It won't matter if you spam the shield button, 50 damage - 25 = 25 damage dealt

Now compare this to +30% vitality

each of the players now have 130 HP
1) If they had any defense, this would mitigate all damage 30% more since each player will have +30 base HP points
2) say the same AOE spell hit as above, each player now goes from 130 to 80 (5 HP more than shield)
3) you do not need a crystal ball to predict when this damage will hit

Also I can see what you are saying about Trans., however I still prefer 20% spirit regen since it is not conditional - it is always there. If I need a heal, I will not spam spells, I will either cast Serenity if it is an emergency, or I will cast BoH.
Edited by Vixen on 2/16/2012 11:33 AM PST
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Reason why i was choosing the slightly more dmg for everyone is because the title of this thread said "support".

As a support monk you need to give up your own buffs (such as resistance) to buff your allies.

You said it too that you don't plan on getting hit all that often so why have resistance?

Issues with using a 2 hander and having the 20% regen is a problem with Monk regen. Until we know how the end game gear looks and what spirit regen we'll see on items.

In the BETA the regen is slow. REALLY slow, even with the 2 hander and the passive it is nothing close to a turtle with 2 broken legs.

So until we see gear that can increase the regen rate for spirit it just doesn't look like the regen will be enough to provide enough help in Inferno.

So i would rather as a support monk buff all my allies. Reduce dmg that all mobs do to myself and my allies. and stack HP and heals to keep everyone up and alive.
Edited by Archangel on 2/16/2012 11:33 AM PST
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i like your analogy of the AOE spell so lets look at it 2 explosions or 3 explosions over.

This happens often in BETA with frozen mobs. You kill the miniions they blow up. you kill the boss he blows up. so 3-5 explosions.

130 hp - 50 = 80 - 50 = 30 - 50 = dead

100 - 25 = 75 - 25 = 50 - 25 = 25 - 25 = dead

So with this you see the indigo actually takes 4 explosions before diing while your hp bonus only takes 3.

Thats the idea. You reapply the bubble when you see fit for it over and over again.

4 explosions is only 100 spirit and with the 3 second buff of reapplying the shield. Your getting more HP per second too. So the shield will give MORE longevity vs a flat HP buff.
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another point. You have 2 mantras.

So when will you swap back and forth between MoH? and MoC?

Remember once you swap out of MoH you loose 30% hp and when you go back you gain max life of 30% HP but you dont get that life for free. It needs to be healed into it.

Just like when you equip gear with more VIT on it your life has to fill up.

With the shield there is no fill up. It is an instant 25% of your HP.
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i like your analogy of the AOE spell so lets look at it 2 explosions or 3 explosions over.

This happens often in BETA with frozen mobs. You kill the miniions they blow up. you kill the boss he blows up. so 3-5 explosions.

130 hp - 50 = 80 - 50 = 30 - 50 = dead

100 - 25 = 75 - 25 = 50 - 25 = 25 - 25 = dead

So with this you see the indigo actually takes 4 explosions before diing while your hp bonus only takes 3.

Thats the idea. You reapply the bubble when you see fit for it over and over again.

4 explosions is only 100 spirit and with the 3 second buff of reapplying the shield. Your getting more HP per second too. So the shield will give MORE longevity vs a flat HP buff.


You still don't get it...

First off, you just spent 100 spirit and your group is dead. With that 100 spirit I could have cast 2 very large group heals if needed and my group not only wouldn't be dead but they would be near full health.

Second you are making 3 assumptions I am not:
1) each player is at 100% health before damage occurs, this is important since if they start at 130, after they take their first set of damage I can step in and heal before they hit a critical threshold faster than if they were to start at the base 100.
2) That you can predict when damage will occur at all times. I am not predicting this, I react when needed by casting a large heal that also increases my group's damage.
3) That all players are taking equal damage - this is the exception more than it is the rule. So your 25 spirit shield spell will likely only be benefitting 1 or 2 players. Compare this to a 50 spirit direct heal which also reduces the danger threshold which a shield will just maintain.
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You seem to throw in new equations when we are talking about numbers.

Such as:

02/16/2012 11:46 AMPosted by Vixen
With that 100 spirit I could have cast 2 very large group heals if needed and my group not only wouldn't be dead but they would be near full health.


This argument in our MoH with indigo vs MoH with 30% vit doesn't fit because BOTH builds can do this.

I was only showing that the shield gives you longer life longevity vs's the flat rate.

I could bring up countless what if's that could break your spaming heals but we were only talking about 1 skill and 1 rune and nothing else.

So in our equation. The shield is better right? Yes the numbers dont lie.

Now lets get to talking about spirit spending.

You mention again with 100 spirit you can get off 2 BIG heals.

50 spirit = 9490 - 14235 within 12 yrds.
x2
100 spirit = 18980 - 28470 @ 12 yrds

either a 50 spirit heal or a 100 spirit double heal you will be spending a lot more time trying to earn all that spirit back vs's if you used indigo and heals together.

now im going to use the math in 10 second intervals. Also allowing me to make the decision for your direct heals like you mentioned before. If they need a big heal we BOTH can do it right?

25 spirit MoH = (2965.6 x 3)8896.8 + (593.1 x 7)4151.7 = 13,048.5 within 40 yrds

My 25 spirit in 10 seconds just healed the same as your 50 spirit instant. Ontop of that, my 25 spirit gave everyone within 40 yrds the heal vs's your 12 yards.

Need i double this equation?
50 spirit = 9490 - 14235 within 12 yrds.
x2
100 spirit = 18980 - 28470

or

13,048.5 within 40 yrds
x2
50 spirit = 26,097 over 20 seconds.

Thats also now with 50% HP bonus over the 30% from the other rune.

It just goes to show that the MoH with Indigo is a better heal and more efficient heal than Breath and the 30% base life, as good as it is, doesn't compare to stacking multiple shields which quickly surpas the HP bonus from it.
Edited by Archangel on 2/16/2012 12:13 PM PST
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You really don't get it.

You give me an example where you compare shield vs. vitality, but you are also are spending 100 spirit vs. the vitality example that is spending 0 spirit. I could spend half the spirit that you spend spamming shield on that low damage over time your allies are being hit with and they will last longer, assume the group heal does 50HP in that example:

130 - 50 = 80 + 50 = 130 -50 = 80 - 50 = 30 (50 spirit spent - sustained 3 hits)
100 - 25 - 25 - 25 = 25 left (100 spirit spent - sustained 3 hits)

I tell you I am not going to just sit there and watch my team die, I will take that 100 spirit you are spending in your example and use a skill which your build doesn't even have since you said a direct heal was redundant to the Mantra.

/faceplam
Edited by Vixen on 2/16/2012 12:25 PM PST
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You also cannot say the 25% shield is is an HP bonus, roflmao. That's ONLY if the damage being inflicted is exactly 25.

When there are damage spikes and you know there will be, even if you can predict it:
130% health less individual character defense (armor, resistances, etc..) + group heal >>>>>> 100% health less individual character defense (armor, resistances, etc..) + spammable shield

When there is LOW consistent PREDICTABLE damage (doesn't sound like inferno to me):
spammable shield might be more efficient than 130% health + group heal
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If i were to take it to the 100 spirit spent with MoH it just gets even more gross.

LOL

you will have absorbed twice your HP over before taking any damage.

Why?

Because while the shield is up your getting bonus healing and as always....

You or I could use Breathe to heal if we need to.

Give me multiple shields over a flat VIT to heal anytime.

Thats what i love about Indigo. Its a spell almost in of itself.

with the 3 second bonus healing and a shield to allow that heal to be uninterrupted. I would wrather have free heals then trying to constantly be healing over and over.
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If i were to take it to the 100 spirit spent with MoH it just gets even more gross.

LOL

you will have absorbed twice your HP over before taking any damage.

Why?

Because while the shield is up your getting bonus healing and as always....

You or I could use Breathe to heal if we need to.

Give me multiple shields over a flat VIT to heal anytime.

Thats what i love about Indigo. Its a spell almost in of itself.

with the 3 second bonus healing and a shield to allow that heal to be uninterrupted. I would wrather have free heals then trying to constantly be healing over and over.


You never (successfully) played a healer in any other game before have you?

You can't keep a full group up with only an HoT + Shield for reasons that should be evidently clear in my last 2 posts.
Edited by Vixen on 2/16/2012 12:27 PM PST
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/facepalm?

I hope your not taking my convorsation as to denouce your own opinion.

We both have a right to what we think.

I am only showing the difference in effecientcy between MoH w/ Indigo vs.s MoH and Vit

One requires you to heal your allies more often. (Vit)

The other allows you to save your spirit for other abilities because the super heal and shield make up for your 30%.

The Vit MoH you wont be spamming MoH to reaplly the 3 second heal bonus will you? Why would you? You would rather spend 50 spirit for a big heal @ 12 yards.

Its 2 different ways to reach the same goal.

Super size your parties HP and spend more Spirit to heal that large HP pool.

or

Give them a shield(essentially boosting their max hp by 25%) and bonus healing at half the cost.

Your play style is up to you. (^-^) No need to be rude with /facepalm
Edited by Archangel on 2/16/2012 12:29 PM PST
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My philosophy for a 2 mantra build is 1 mantra is going to be situational and the other is your main.

MoC being the main to increase dmg and reduce dmg taken.

When we need the heals i want to be able to put a shield around my allies and give them a buffer so the bonus heals will have a greater effect. (Spam shield if necessary)

It seems that you want to keep MoH out for the 30% VIT and switch to MoC when you want to fight.

If that fight gets scary, you plan to switch back to MoH? Or will you just Breathe of Heaven your way through it while maintaining MoC?

For me the shield acts as a timer for me when to switch back or reapply. I may even just heal like you (^-^)b but i like the freedom to choose. It seems indigo gives more freedom in this.
Edited by Archangel on 2/16/2012 12:39 PM PST
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you are trolling at this point, for like the 10th time, you cannot take the 25% shield and consider it worth the full 25 HP benefit

shield
player A takes 40 damage = 25 HP from shield
player B takes 12 damage = 12 HP from shield
player C takes 0 damage = 0 HP from shield
player D takes 0 damage = 0 HP from shield

cost = 25 spirit, HP gained = 37
Now 1 shield is down, you need to reapply - cost is already up to 50 spirit (2x 25 total) = 1 full group heal for vitality

vitality
4 players x 30HP = 120 HP

player A takes 40 damage = 30 HP from vitality
player B takes 12 damage = 12 HP from vitality

cost = 0 spirit, HP gained = 42

With vitality you get 100% of the HP benefits (you actually get > 100% due to each players defense which I haven't even touched upon in great deal).

With shield you get a much smaller percentage of the HP benefits at the cost of 25 spirit per application.
Edited by Vixen on 2/16/2012 1:22 PM PST
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