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until it can be tested. I would assume that armor and damage reduction will apply as well for the shield.
Sorry if it seems that i am trolling. When im at work and i have down time i keep up multiple windows. Diablo 3 being one of them. News sites and game sites being others.
Not trying to be rude or a nuisance. I just like the 2 mantra idea and I plan to put it through some rigorous testing in inferno.
You never (successfully) played a healer in any other game before have you?Then HOW do you expect none healing classes to be able to survive?.......I'll tell you. Damage mitigation / healthpool / DPS.......MoH obsidian is great if you don't want to recast it. MoH indigo is better if you have spirit that you want to put toward heals/shields.....Oh and can you CONFIRM that MoH obsidian HEALS you that 30% buffer, I doubt it does.
Edited by Candle on 2/16/2012 1:21 PM PST
I played Wow but i was a Mage. My father played a Druid and did great.
We played for 4 years before Wrath of the Lich King came out. I quit the game he continued.
I see the argument for more VIT. I really do. But i see the strengths in having a shield and multiple super HOTS with stacking shields
No shields, and spending spirit to heal through the dmg.
Doesn't really have to be tested. I'm SURE most would agree players damage mitigation will apply to the shield, (how else would you calculate dmg done but with dmg formulas). I'm also quite sure Wizards diamond skin will get dmg mitigation from stats.
Then HOW do you expect none healing classes to be able to survive?.......I'll tell you. Damage mitigation / healthpool / DPS
The discussion is playing a healer. When other classes solo they put a higher priority on life leech skills.
MoH obsidian is great if you don't want to recast it. MoH indigo is better if you have spirit that you want to put toward heals/shields
I really think when you factor in spike damage by mobs, armor and spell resist you'd wish all of your allies had 30% more HP. Think of the Power Word: Fortitude buff from WoW - why do you think everyone loves it and why (at least when I played years ago) it was the most sought after buff in the game in groups?
Oh and can you CONFIRM that MoH obsidian HEALS you that 30% buffer, I doubt it does.
It's applied pre-battle and a good monk will make sure the mantra is always up.
Edited by Vixen on 2/16/2012 1:35 PM PST
The discussion is playing a healer. When other classes solo they put a higher priority on life leech skills.Yip, but life leech wont protect you from the spike you are fearing MoH indigo wont be able to handle. The point IS that other classes with life leech or not WILL be able to handle the spike in one way or another. This isn't an opinion it's a fact.
Edited by Candle on 2/16/2012 1:53 PM PST
For some reason I cant find myself using the "Chant of Resonance"
The spirit tick is just not enough for me to seem worth while. So many better passive to either benefit you or your allies.
I like how you break down the spirit cost for spells. n0rain, your two builds look a lot like my wifes and I build.
We will have 2 monks in our parties at all times because we both plan to play as them. With that one will maintain MoH and the other will MoC. I have been trying to build a 2 mantra build for her since she likes the support role a lot more than dealing dmg and getting in the mess of things.
100% Damage reduction
32% bonus dmg to all targets
Indigo blinding flash is there to save spirit. Most likely when you first blind the mobs. More than one will be hit and will be free'd of the blind. So the second proc of blind allows you to blind. AOE and then get a free blind again to escape.
Now I hope my Ally's aoe aura wonty break blind but we'll have to see
There are times when your group needs healing and there are times when they need to do more damage (and take less).
Keep in mind this isn't WoW where you have 1 cc, 1 healer, 1 tank, 1dps - don't think of players as only very specific roles. I wouldn't count on a group with 2 monks very often unless 1 is doing straight out dps, the exception more than the norm - in that specific exception you wouldn't need to carry 2 mantras.
There will be points in a battle you will need more damage done (you get the added benefit of less damage taken) with MoC w/ Alabaster - you would start all non-boss fights with this mantra along with your ally and 50% HP buff. For boss fights, you can start with MoH-Obsidian so everyone starts with more HP.
Start of each fight you want Mantra of Conviction up with Alabastor, mid-to-late fight you want Mantra of Healing up, I don't think you'll have the luxury of waiting 30 seconds to swap skills mid-battle.
I disagree that the fights will be short, this is inferno we are talking about.
Your build on top of having two mantras has the earth ally which does nothing for your group. It gives you and your pet 50% extra health. That's about it.
First off 50% more life is HUGE. H-U-G-E. 50% keeps me alive longer, keeping me alive longer gives our group a better chance to survive and do more damage when I can lay down heals and mantras.
Even with Exalted Soul which gives 250 spirit your skills are going to drain you really hard. If you use your skills all in row you come to a total of 135 spirit spent. You won't likely have to use it in a row very often but suppose at the begining of an encounter every takes massive dmg in 5 second intervals. your MoC won't be able to keep up and ten you need to cast MoH. After that you will want to Crippling Wave for the damage reduction since you don't get it from MoC any more. By this time you are struggling to get mystic ally out to save your !@# while trying to bubble one of those 5 second intervals. So, by now someone or all 4 players have taken ridiculous amounts of damage and you need to BoH someone. Do you do it to your ally so you keep the life buff or a party member who is taking down mobs or yourself to keep healing. Either way it will be a few seconds before you get enough spirit to keep using your skills.
re: wall of text
I underlined the funny part. Umm you wipe? If everyone takes massive dmg in 5 second intervals they would have a better chance surviving with the build I layed out where they have 30% more life to begin with and I have the ability to lay down group heals and serenity.
In short, spirit cost per skill is just too high.
I will concede it could use better spirit regen - the air ally is pretty dismal though you are talking a 10% chance at 11 spirit per attack - figure an attack every 1.5 seconds (too generous?) - expected spirit regen = less than 1 spirit per second - I would much rather have more HP to survive longer to benefit the group.
Edited by Vixen on 2/16/2012 1:58 PM PST
Casual playing is gonna have lots of downtime. Walking between fights/ Backtracking because you went the wrong way / teleporting to town / identifying and looking at new gear / chatting / etc ..... All time for spirit to be regenerating ^^
I have yet to see anything about enemies having their own thorns effect one them.
I would assume maybe a boss has damage reflection or thorns but i dont remeber seeing that many in D2. Why would they have a bunch in D3?
Also thorns would only effect melee. Not your ranged DPS.
Lets just say I LOVE...LOVE to theory craft. (darn you Wow and Homefront and any other RPG with skills)
So I love having these discussions about ideas and throwing them back and forth. I see the benefit of VIT. It just doesn't out way the benefits i see with the shield.
For a duel mantra build to work it will require a lot of spirit to be used well. And we wont see how easy or hard it will be to generate that spirit till we get there.
For some reason I cant find myself using the "Chant of Resonance"Casual playing is gonna have lots of downtime. Walking between fights/ Backtracking because you went the wrong way / teleporting to town / identifying and looking at new gear / chatting / etc ..... All time for spirit to be regenerating ^^
1 spirit per second is pretty bad - 250 spirit pool you are talking a static .4% of your spirit pool getting regenerated per second. Compare that to Guardian's Path and +20% of your current spirit generation. Not to mention reapply the shield over and over again totally negates the +7 minutes to the mantra.
Edited by Vixen on 2/16/2012 2:02 PM PST
I bet that if you find yourself in a down time and need a fill up on the ol' spirit globe. You could swap it out for the 30 seconds and have it up while your afk, grabing food or drinks, answering phone calls, taking care of kids. etc etc
Casual play for sure but Inferno play? Will be hard to see.
Of course Candle you would find a way to make it work and just show me up to spite me (^-^) lol..
*shaking hand in air* CAAAANDDDDDLLLLLLLEEE!!!!!!
20% spirit regeneration of 0 spirit regen is still 0.
With a 2 hander you get only 0.18 spirit per second? best i have seen in BETA.
So until we see the gear that shows and can add up to like 10 spirit per second (which i dont EVER see happening because it would be broken)
Then 20% spirit regen of nothing is still nothing. I dont want to wait for my spirit. I would rather see my ally making spirit for me or find other means then to waste a passive on a small bonus.
Edited by Archangel on 2/16/2012 2:05 PM PST
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