Diablo® III

Crafted items way overpowered?

86 Tauren Warrior
3775
I don't know if there are already changes planned to this, but... It seems like the crafted items are way too good compared to everything else around. After a few levels of gold accumulation, I can basically just trivially craft some best-in-slot gear for every slot. Better than the magic items I'd actually get dropped for me. And it's insanely cheap to do; 30 minutes of playtime gets me a solid 3 or 4 crafted items for any slot I choose. And if I don't like the items, I can just pop them back into the dust-maker to go again.

What's the point of having items even drop off of bosses if I can just pop out something that's pretty comparable anytime I want?

I understand this won't so much be the case in the very end game, but I can't imagine this is really ideal for initial playthroughs either.

Why not significantly increase the crafting materials required, so that it becomes a good alternative for an item you really want, but not a way to fill every single slot on your character?
Reply Quote
In beta it's easy to have the blacksmith outlevel the content. For example you might beat SK at level 8 but you can craft level 12/13 gear. I don't think this will be a problem in the full game.
Reply Quote
02/20/2012 01:37 AMPosted by Ral
In beta it's easy to have the blacksmith outlevel the content. For example you might beat SK at level 8 but you can craft level 12/13 gear. I don't think this will be a problem in the full game.


I actually agree with this.

After the Beta wipe for patch 13 I played 3 characters (DH, Monk, and Wizard), and all 3 of them seemed like a "fair fight" vs skeleton king at level 7-8. So I believe SK is pretty much just a lower level boss then the crafted gear we are getting.
Reply Quote
02/20/2012 01:37 AMPosted by Ral
In beta it's easy to have the blacksmith outlevel the content. For example you might beat SK at level 8 but you can craft level 12/13 gear. I don't think this will be a problem in the full game.


02/20/2012 09:26 AMPosted by TianZi
In beta it's easy to have the blacksmith outlevel the content. For example you might beat SK at level 8 but you can craft level 12/13 gear. I don't think this will be a problem in the full game.


I actually agree with this.

After the Beta wipe for patch 13 I played 3 characters (DH, Monk, and Wizard), and all 3 of them seemed like a "fair fight" vs skeleton king at level 7-8. So I believe SK is pretty much just a lower level boss then the crafted gear we are getting.


I dont think thats his point at all. You can craft a + damage, + int + random property wizzard weapon and off hand every craft when compared to all the crap wizzard weap/ off hand that drops normally.

In addition to this if i were trying to make an int helm, its much easier to craft over and over then to attempt to magic find it in the game.
Reply Quote
02/20/2012 12:33 PMPosted by PmP
In beta it's easy to have the blacksmith outlevel the content. For example you might beat SK at level 8 but you can craft level 12/13 gear. I don't think this will be a problem in the full game.


<span class="truncated" />

I actually agree with this.

After the Beta wipe for patch 13 I played 3 characters (DH, Monk, and Wizard), and all 3 of them seemed like a "fair fight" vs skeleton king at level 7-8. So I believe SK is pretty much just a lower level boss then the crafted gear we are getting.


I dont think thats his point at all. You can craft a + damage, + int + random property wizzard weapon and off hand every craft when compared to all the crap wizzard weap/ off hand that drops normally.

In addition to this if i were trying to make an int helm, its much easier to craft over and over then to attempt to magic find it in the game.

There's a time trade-off for doing that. I've tried crafting some high dex shoulderguards for my level 13 monk. It can take dozens of attempts to get the stats you want, each of which costs four or so essences (don't recall precisely) and yields one essence back when salvaged. The same time cost applies for buying gear off the AH, unless you want to pump real money into your balance.

So do you want to linger at given level, and farm blues to salvage so you can make awesome level 13 shoulderguards, or do you want to keep moving through the content, and probably get a good level 13 drop from a level 13 boss or random yellow near the end of Act I? It's each player's choice, and the two routes seem fairly balanced to me, from the little bit we can see in the beta.
Edited by Xanthippus on 2/20/2012 2:52 PM PST
Reply Quote
86 Tauren Warrior
3775
02/20/2012 09:26 AMPosted by TianZi
In beta it's easy to have the blacksmith outlevel the content. For example you might beat SK at level 8 but you can craft level 12/13 gear. I don't think this will be a problem in the full game.


I actually agree with this.

After the Beta wipe for patch 13 I played 3 characters (DH, Monk, and Wizard), and all 3 of them seemed like a "fair fight" vs skeleton king at level 7-8. So I believe SK is pretty much just a lower level boss then the crafted gear we are getting.


Your point seems to be, "well, when you first start the game, you don't have enough gold or materials to make crafting an overpowering option". I don't think that's a valid claim at all.

Here are the facts as we know them, based on what little we've seen on beta, and not speculating on future changes.

1) Gold is easily obtainable to the point where somebody can fairly realistically unlock crafting tiers commensurate to their level of progression, without backtracking or really even trying to focus on it in any way.
2) Once those tiers are unlocked, the items yielded by the crafting process are *significantly* superior to anything else that drops, and in some cases specialized to your particular class. We seem to have magic items dropping in the game with only one affix, whereas crafted items commonly have three. Player power goes up incredibly fast once these crafted items are pumped out, and anybody who's killed the skeleton king once is almost certainly at a point where they can have powerful items--weapons, even--sitting in their inventory, level locked, just waiting for when they reach a higher level.
3) Magic items for salvage are a dime a dozen. I can run one clear of the last quest chain in the beta and easily have 10+ magic items in my inventory for dusting. As it stands, that's something like three items with pretty good properties, in any slot I choose, that are superior to anything that can possibly drop. And while I didn't want to speculate on the future, we can say with great certainty that the availability of magic find gear will mean that even more magic items will drop down the road.

One other comment was made, "well, it can take a bunch of tries to get the item I really want from crafting". Think about what that's really saying: It can take you multiple tries to get a *perfect* item out of the crafting process, with all the stats you can possibly want. An item that is *much* better than anything else that currently drops in the game. More than likely, the very first item you get out of the crafting gamble is still superior than anything else that drops, and one of the first three you craft is pretty damn good.

Diablo 1 and 2 have always been about killing monsters to get loot. You *could* craft or gamble or shop for items in Diablo 2, but it was never a great path compared to world drops except in a couple of cases. I'm okay with them buffing the crafting options a little bit over where they were in D2, but as it stands right now, it looks like crafting will absolutely dominate itemization options until the highest levels of content. I don't think that's a good thing, and for as long as Diablo 3 has been in development, I expect a more elegant design solution than what we're seeing currently.
Reply Quote
Does anyone realize that once you can level above level 13, you will be level 14+ before you even fully craft the lower end gear you have now?

It may take 10 tries to get the one handed crossbow you want, in which case you may be level 17 already and have a better one at your disposal. You can't base everything on the beta when you only have limited content really.
Reply Quote
86 Tauren Warrior
3775
Does anyone realize that once you can level above level 13, you will be level 14+ before you even fully craft the lower end gear you have now?

It may take 10 tries to get the one handed crossbow you want, in which case you may be level 17 already and have a better one at your disposal. You can't base everything on the beta when you only have limited content really.


What does that mean? It seems like complete nonsense to me.

Beta facts:

1) I can be around level 6 in the beta and make items with a level requirement that is way, way above level 13 (i.e. as soon as I gain access to the blacksmith). Gold is the only limiting factor to what you can learn to craft, and gold is easily obtained.
2) I have to find an item that is remotely competitive with any of the weapons I can craft, and I have never crafted an item that was definitively worse than what was dropped for me in the game. Crafted items are very good. If you decide that you want to continue crafting over and over and over until you get a perfect item, then your crafted item will be even better, but you're not obligated to do this to get items that are significantly better than what drops for you.
3) It appears that there's basically one type of crafting resource for anything in normal difficulty, then nightmare, then hell. The way it looks right now, you can very, very easily be crafting best-in-slot items well before you can even equip them.

Any sort of claim along the lines of "it'll be fine in the full version" has no merit. Based on what we're seeing RIGHT NOW IN THE ACTUAL BETA, crafting is overpowered. If anything, what we can extrapolate outwards is that it will be EVEN MORE OVERPOWERED throughout the remainder of the leveling process.

We're already looking at a game that used to encourage people to re-roll dozens of new characters, changed into a game where there's no benefit to more than five. On top of that, they seem to be adding facilities into the game that make it extraordinarily easy to get those characters to level 60.

Just how quickly do you want to be bored with this game?
Reply Quote
I'm just going to guess that since beta is normal mode, and there is nightmare, hell, and inferno beyond normal mode that the point is normal mode boss drops aren't any better than crafted items. But then if you go into a harder mode, the crafted items don't improve and boss drops do.

I could be entirely wrong, but that seems like a very logical way to do it, and would explain why crafted items seem so awesome compared to drops. They did state that normal level is prettymuch for casual players and farmers.
Reply Quote
Any sort of claim along the lines of "it'll be fine in the full version" has no merit. Based on what we're seeing RIGHT NOW IN THE ACTUAL BETA, crafting is overpowered. If anything, what we can extrapolate outwards is that it will be EVEN MORE OVERPOWERED throughout the remainder of the leveling process.

So we can't say "it'll be fine in the full version", but you get to say, "it'll be worse in the full version"? If one has no merit, so does the other. Make up your mind. Either the beta is representative of the rest of the game, or it's not. Your final statement is in fact completely counterintuitive. The early game is supposed to be extremely easy. It thus stands to reason, if we're going to extrapolate anything at all, that crafting should be extremely easy too, and that as the rest of the game gets harder, so will crafting. I would thus expect the power differential between dropped and crafted gear to get smaller.

Really though, this is one issue that is just guesswork at this point. There will be plenty of time to complain about crafted gear vs dropped gear once we see the rest of the game.
Reply Quote
It could just be that required materials are way less in beta. Maybe these items will be a lot harder to make come release.

I'm ok with crafting being a viable means of finding good magical items. I do not like that you can craft rare and better items. Capping it at blues is a good way of offering a minimum baseline for characters that are just plain unlucky or don't put any effort in. But making crafting able to give you better items than drops feels so wrong to me. I dislike it when you are given something for nothing.
Reply Quote
02/20/2012 12:33 PMPosted by PmP
In beta it's easy to have the blacksmith outlevel the content. For example you might beat SK at level 8 but you can craft level 12/13 gear. I don't think this will be a problem in the full game.




I actually agree with this.

After the Beta wipe for patch 13 I played 3 characters (DH, Monk, and Wizard), and all 3 of them seemed like a "fair fight" vs skeleton king at level 7-8. So I believe SK is pretty much just a lower level boss then the crafted gear we are getting.


I dont think thats his point at all. You can craft a + damage, + int + random property wizzard weapon and off hand every craft when compared to all the crap wizzard weap/ off hand that drops normally.

In addition to this if i were trying to make an int helm, its much easier to craft over and over then to attempt to magic find it in the game.


There's not much you can craft for a level 8 character that fits in with this argument, and how little there is, doesn't really seem like a bad thing. We don't know how the crafted gear there fits in with the stuff beyond the Skeleton King, so you are arguing to balance crafting for levels 1-13 for content levels 1-8. It doesn't make sense.

This is a very common issue with beta feedback here, but yeah, it doesn't hold up.
Reply Quote
Am I the only one who thinks that crafting will be more of an "Oh $%^*, I really need a new weapon" on our first character when we are busy leveling it, but the true rewards will be reaped by our second character?

After all, the crafters are cross character, and storing crafting mats the first playthrough will allow us to pre craft 1-60 gear for a lucky alt, eliminating any real gear worries at least through normal, and probably nightmare.

Please note I'm not in the beta, and this all speculation based on perusing these forums and youtube.
Edited by Aemon on 2/20/2012 9:26 PM PST
Reply Quote
02/20/2012 12:33 PMPosted by PmP
In beta it's easy to have the blacksmith outlevel the content. For example you might beat SK at level 8 but you can craft level 12/13 gear. I don't think this will be a problem in the full game.




I actually agree with this.

After the Beta wipe for patch 13 I played 3 characters (DH, Monk, and Wizard), and all 3 of them seemed like a "fair fight" vs skeleton king at level 7-8. So I believe SK is pretty much just a lower level boss then the crafted gear we are getting.


I dont think thats his point at all. You can craft a + damage, + int + random property wizzard weapon and off hand every craft when compared to all the crap wizzard weap/ off hand that drops normally.

In addition to this if i were trying to make an int helm, its much easier to craft over and over then to attempt to magic find it in the game.


Well, limit your craftables to level 7 which is about the level of the "crap gear" that drops.

Then it really does kinda make sense. I don't think itemization will really matter much until you're talking about lv 60 drops vs lv 60 crafted items anyways. Right now comparing like a lv 9-13 crafted item with a lv 6 drop isn't really a fair comparison.

Comparing like a lv 6 drop to lv 6 crafted is actually not too far off. However, even then you will quickly out level the item so there really isn't any point crafting multiples to try and get the "best" stats. The reason why we see crafting a ton of stuff trying to get the "perfect" one now is because they are already capped at level 13. If the level cap wasn't there, lots of those people would have been past lv 20 by the time they made that perfect lv 13 weapon.
Reply Quote
Pretty sure all the dropped stuff you see in the beta is level 6 or below. There's no level 6 crafted weapon that would be better than a weapon dropped off Leoric on your first play through.
Reply Quote
Ugh this again. A simple search will give you your answer. The reason crafted gear is OP is because the monsters in the beta are ALL BELOW THE CRAFTED LEVEL save for 2. Every monster in beta is level 1-5 except for the returned (mlvl 6) and Skeleton King (mlvl 8). Monster level is a major factor in determining the quality of loot that drops. Because 99% of the monsters are below level 6, every single drop will be inferior to the crafter gear that is clvl 6.

THAT is the reason gear drops are inferior in the beta. RELEASE FIXES THIS as you will face higher level monsters.
Reply Quote
86 Tauren Warrior
3775
You say that with kind of a “well, DUH!” tone, but I really don’t see what the monster level and item level have to do with anything. Yes, in the final game there will be higher level monsters and higher level drops. There will be better items available than the crafted stuff, either through better rares or unique or sets or whatever. Better magic items with more affixes may also exist, although this isn’t a given, because in Diablo 2 the nature of the system was that you never saw a magic item with more a prefix and an affix, compared to the crafted items we’re seeing in the game with three properties on them.
 
None of this changes the fact that, as it is now, crafting is an incredibly powerful tool that seems to enable you to make excellent items, for any slot you desire, even beyond the level where you can actually equip them. Such that you’ll be practically guaranteed a good, or even great weapon for as long as magic quality weapons are competitive.
 
I don’t doubt that at some point in the game between level 8 and level 60 it will be the case that crafted items will not be as bizarrely powerful compared to items that drop from a monster onto the ground, relative to how big the difference is in the beta. That said, based on what we’re seeing right now, I see no reason to believe that crafting won’t be an overwhelmingly popular way for filling up every armor slot on your character until approximately the end of Nightmare, if progression remains similar to how it worked in Diablo 2.
 
And to clarify, I have no problem with crafting being a good way to get decent items (although not the best items). The problem as it stands right now is that the available items are INSANELY easy to craft. As long as it remains the case that you can junk a few crap blues into one that is specialized for what your class needs and in a slot where you need an item, then it’s just too good. My recommendation is that they either require a white or blue item to serve as a basis for the craft, i.e. a transmute kind of system, or they up the quantity requirements on the crafting so that it’s not quite as simple as burning up a few of the junk items that drop every couple of minutes.  
Reply Quote
Yes, Blacksmith is OP, at least in the Beta. :-(

Problem is that even at the SK you get many items for level 3, whereas the Blacksmith forges you items for Level 12.
Maybe thats intended, so that using the "crafting" (what a boring crafting system btw -.-) system gives you an advantage over finding items. So the Blacksmith is always a bit "further". That makes sense, because it is more work to convert items + level BS than to just pick up things.

BUT: I think they took it a bit too far. o.O BS is not just outclassing other items... he is light years further!
Im sure they have a lot of balancing work yet to do!
Reply Quote
Crafted items should be good in the early game. That kind of system has a lot of advantages.
1.) Gets people interesting in leveling artisans (time sink, keeps people involved in game)
2.) Gets people hooked on commodities + gambling early on (huge profit source for Blizzard)
3.) Makes sure characters don't suck early on (keeps people playing)

There's plenty of time to get people addicted to drops at the higher levels.
Reply Quote
Also, characters are generally overpowered in the beta. I do full clears of every area and I reach and kill the SK by level 8 or 9. If you're running around with that rare crafted level 13 bow... it's like running around the den of evil when you're level 13 in D2. Of course you'll kill everything and be "overpowered."
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]