Diablo® III

Crafted items way overpowered?

Posts: 290
Am I the only one that feels like the crafting system feels completely out of place in a Diablo game? Either way, I agree with the OP if there really is only 4 tiers of blacksmith materials.

Here's what the problem is:

-You can craft an item as soon as you hit the required level. You'll get the item quicker than you could possibly get a drop of that level.
-You can do this because the material from the low level stuff can be used to make the higher lvl gear.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm assuming that the way it works is that there are only 4 types of materials (normal, nightmare, hell, inferno). Does anyone have real info about this? The blacksmith would be broken if that's the case and just fine if it's not.
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Once you get to a certain point ~lvl25ish items you need different materials to even unlock more training tiers. The only reason blacksmithing is overpowered right now is because people are running the beta over and over and have tons of crafting materials to make stuff that is higher level than the content, purely because it's capped at 13. This will not be a problem in the main game because people are going to continue leveling with the monsters.

It will only matter for subsequent characters, which is fine because why should your next characters suffer when you can gear them out to steamroll low level crap
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There are dropped items in the beta that are comparable to crafted items, they are just hard to find because for each game you only see 9 or so monsters that can drop them. The returned can drop items at level 7-8 and SK can drop items that are like level 9-10.

Go kill a bunch of returned until you get a magic leather chest piece, you'll find the stats on the dropped item are equal to or better than your crafted item.

As has been stated, crafting is only overpowered in beta because it's not possible to match the item levels of those that the Blacksmith can create. Steel Wands are a great example. They are at an item level of 12. Nothing in Beta can drop an item of that level, but once the game releases and you face monsters with higher mlvls, you will find better items.

You are also forgetting that the Blacksmith can't make the best items in the game - he can only make a few rares and even fewer legendaries. On the other hand, monsters can drop rares of every type of item in the game and legendary items, plus magic items of equal item level.

Later in the game, you can use crafted items to keep from falling behind mlvl, but I doubt crafted items will be as powerful as those you can find.
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100 Tauren Warrior
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Posts: 28
You guys are clearly hoping for the best with this stuff. Every time I run through the beta on a new character, I can fairly consistently craft great items for myself before I've ever had to re-run anything, without using items gained from other characters other than drawing from the shared gold stash, and the game gets drastically easier every time I do.

You're *hoping* that drops from the actual game catch up to the instantly-available crafted pile, but the evidence *right now* is that crafted items are very powerful and very easy to obtain without any kind of farming whatsoever. Knowing how magic items work in Diablo 2 and appear to work in Diablo 3, it seems highly likely that this won't change. At level 11 or 12, if I haven't spent my gold with wild disregard, I'm able to craft items with a level 25 requirement, for any slot I choose.

As a one-time serious Diablo 2 addict, I happen to think that crafting should be a minor part of the game, either through reducing the power of the crafted items or increasing the challenge of obtaining them. And I'm definitely not some kind of purist, I love a lot of the changes they've made to the game, but I just think this one runs contrary to what the Diablo series is about. I'd like to see them at least comment on how they see this fitting into the overall loot acquisition scheme.
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100 Tauren Warrior
7920
Posts: 28
Clearly the best items will be uniques and sets. This is about whether the leveling process will be completely trivialized.

And did you just really point out that the best rings and amulets in the beta are the ones that drop in the game world, even in light of the fact that those are the two item types you can't craft?
Edited by Kromp on 2/26/2012 4:29 PM PST
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100 Tauren Warrior
7920
Posts: 28
It's certainly possible that blizzard will get it right. They're generally very good at game balance. I suppose my concern comes from the fact that they're angling for a console release, and thus there's a chance that the PC version will be watered down. I really want Diablo 3 to be a game that I can sink my teeth into, rather than one I'm bored of after two weeks.

I still think that crafted items should be comparable, at best, to magic items. Right now, by virtue of having multiple stats as well as affixes, they seem to be unequivocally superior. If they're going to do that, then make them a special color, I.e. orange like they were in Diablo 2, and don't make them salvageable for re-rolls.
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Posts: 20
So I am not a Number monkey or a super nerd that sees all the game stuff and how it works, but I DO understand how the game flows

If you cant run out into the wilderness as well clothed and armed as the day you popped out of your momma screaming "Oh god I am level one!" and make it back alive and slightly better off than when you went in you are doing it wrong.

Crafting items is at the top of what alot of people find fullfilling. Sure anybody can run a boss a few billion times for Uniques or sets... but often times the items are only marginaly better or more useful than the items you needed to survive the fights to obtain it. This assuming it is an item for your character.

Crafting takes the rage quit out of getting a metric crap ton of "good" drops that are worthless. So you kick the Skelliton king over... Scream your prefered profanitys... Rip that Crown off his skull and turn it into your shiny new butt-plate.

Why? Simple... Spite. His crown was a numberless asumed to be awesome thing in the first game which usualy didnt save you anyway. The second game it was ment for just one class, and Your likely not even going to get it in this game. Infact I would go so far as to disenchant it infront of him if it were at all possible but thats just me.

Anyway I mean full offence when I say this but I would much rather be that guy with the spiffy customized armor than that Paladin jerk thats telleporting everywhere throwing hammers and is a dime a dozen or "The best thing in the game" that is boring. It is also why the WoW raiding enviroment is a fail. You slave away as if still at your job to get this end game stuff and end up looking like every other Jerk out there weither or not your the Trollsome Hammer Paladin.
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100 Tauren Warrior
7920
Posts: 28
I’m going to take a moment to elaborate on how the system *should* work, in my mind. This is only speculation, and not commentary on how it will work, because obviously we’ve only seen a very small sliver of the game.
 
Firstly, I agree that rares should be competitive with high-level unique, *at the highest tier*. That is to say, maybe 5% of rares should be superior than most equivalent uniques. If drops work roughly like they used to, then you’re looking at uniques dropping about as quarter as often as rares or something like that, so it makes sense that only a small fraction of rares should be competitive. It adds some flavor when the *possibility* exists for excellent rares, even if it happens infrequently in practice.
 
Magic items should be strictly inferior to uniques and most rares. I think we can reasonably expect that people will be using no magic items by the time they’ve completed Hell difficulty. Now, here’s where I really like the idea of the crafting system, which is that you can take an item that otherwise would have no value at all, and gain *some* benefit from it. Previously, I would’ve just seen a magic item and probably not even bothered to look at it, and cursed the world for the fact that it wasn’t a better item. Now, I can take it back to town and feel like I’m making *some* progress in a forward direction.
 
However, I also think that progress should be slow. I think crafting should essentially be another chance at a rare item, or even a magic item if you’re at the point in the game where a magic item would be an upgrade. That seems to be what they’re going for, and I like that. However, I think that progress should be slow towards that goal *particularly* because you can immediately craft an item for any slot you choose. Random drops should remain the ultimate focus of the game, partly because that’s just how Diablo is and always has been, and partly because I think it’s exciting to kill a boss and have the option to get something neat out of it, rather than the alternative of feeling like you’re just putting the time in.
 
To restate, crafting should be a good outlet to give you a next-best-thing path to get a decent item, so that you feel like you’re making slow and steady progress towards *something* even when the drops aren’t working out in your favor. Crafting *should not* be the primary pathway towards items.
 
So, my primary concern in the beta was that crafted items were easily-obtainable *and* strictly superior to magic items. That is, for very little time or resource investment, I could craft an item for any slot I wanted that was head-and-shoulders above anything that was going to drop for me. Why? Because *in addition* to the random properties you’d find on magic items, there was usually also one or more fixed bonuses to a core stat that you really wanted.
 
Make crafted items equivalent to magic and rare items, and then make sure that they’re not too easy to get, and you’re good to go.
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
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Posts: 2
I'm also a bit concerned about crafting being a bit too good, but I'm hoping that it's merely an early game issue.
IMO, crafted items should always provide a decent alternative to fill in spots that you haven't been lucky enough to get a good drop for, so that your gear doesn't fall too far behind, but you should almost always have a chance at finding a better item from drops. At the high level, this is critical to ensure a good AH economy.
Part of the problem in the beta is that loot that is dropped seems way low level. Even the rare dropped off of the Skeleton King is only level 3, and a crafted level 6+ blue will be better than that. Granted, that is solo play, so maybe it scales up in multiplayer, but it's sad when the loot dropped from the final mob in the beta is only useful for alts.
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It's been said already...

We haven't gotten to a point where drops are "good" yet. The pacing between world drops and crafting will smooth out when we play the real game and get passed the SK.

That's the idea anyway, I'm sure this is something they would have caught by now since they have been playing the full game for a long time.

It's simply an issue pertaining to the beta only.
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Posts: 36
Has anyone crafted lvl 26 weapons or so in the beta? the 4 random magic properties sometimes are SOOO bad and sad it sucks, so getting something good from crafting is also a bit tricky and lucky...

Last time i got
Socket
~1.3% to fear on hit
~1.3% to blind on hit
+20ish hp from health globes

while stunning blinding and fearing on hit might be good at inferno, who knows, it sux for a lvl 26 weapon.

P.S. sorry i dont have a pic for that weapon, I salvaged it asap.

edit.
In fact, I cafted about 4 of those nodachi or w/e the name of the 2h sword is, and only 1 was "ok"
Edited by Sandokan on 3/4/2012 12:09 PM PST
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Posts: 1,591
The problem with basing any crafting solely off the beta is that crafting is not going to be the same throughout the entire game. In what you can access in the beta, all you need to craft is to salvage crappy magic items and pay the blacksmith some gold. If you look at what blizzard is saying the crafting system will turn into, it's not as easy as it is in the beta. You have to actually find items on mobs to use for crafting including the pages to train the blacksmith and the materials you craft the items with.

It's really easy to get good items right now because your weapon will give "[x-y] strength and 1 random property." It's really easy to make 5 of those weapons until you get lucky and the 1 random property is something like attack speed. Once you get to higher level items (like the poster above me said) you're going to be really pissed when you're trying to craft items with 5 random properties and they give you crap like "increased health pickup range, damage return, increased health from health globes, etc."

When you combine all that with the fact that you won't be farming a low level place with crappy drops over and over, there is credence to everyone else's claim that the gear won't be as good as it is now. You can beat the skeleton king by level 8 and the crafted items that you can wear at that level are better than the drops, yes, but not by a ton. By the end of the beta, you're essentially farming the hell out of a place that drops level 6ish items at level 13 and expecting the level 13 crafted items to not be as good. That just isn't going to happen.

The blacksmith in beta is light-years ahead of the gear drops but, like I mentioned before, that isn't how it is going to be forever. You're right that there is an abundance of gold in the game, but that is NOT the only resource you need to craft things once you get to a higher level. Once you start having to collect blacksmith pages to level him (like you need when you max him out in the beta), you'll find that it will be much harder to level him. All of a sudden, the things you can craft will not be as far ahead of the content as they are now. If you want to concentrate on leveling professions, it means you're taking your time in the content trying to farm the recipies/ingredients and you're swapping a fast clearing time for a slower, more methodical approach that yields better items. While you're still clearing old content to get the best item for your level, everyone else will be levels ahead clearing higher level bosses and making their way to harder difficulties.

EDIT: I agree with you, OP, that magic items should never be as good as uniques and rares, and everything else you said to that end. I don't agree with your prediction that crafted items are always going to be as far ahead of drops as you think they are. You're simply looking at the fact that you can use a small amount of gold to buy your way to the best crafted items when in reality the rest of the game isn't going to work like that. Blizzard has stated that you will need drops (as evidenced by the pages in beta) to level your crafting so that will slow it down and make it a much more tedious process like you (and most other players) want to see. This boils down to the same reasoning that prevents people from saying "Diablo 3 is going to be way too easy because I one shot everything in the beta." Of course you do, it's the first act on normal - you can't extrapolate that to say it will always be that easy. Just like you can't say "well it's easy to craft low level items so that means all items will be easy to craft." Just like Blizzard (and common sense) indicated that the game is going to get progressively harder, they have also indicated that crafting will, too.
Edited by LtShaft on 3/6/2012 3:43 PM PST
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Posts: 2,998
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Has anyone crafted lvl 26 weapons or so in the beta? the 4 random magic properties sometimes are SOOO bad and sad it sucks, so getting something good from crafting is also a bit tricky and lucky...

Last time i got
Socket
~1.3% to fear on hit
~1.3% to blind on hit
+20ish hp from health globes

while stunning blinding and fearing on hit might be good at inferno, who knows, it sux for a lvl 26 weapon.

P.S. sorry i dont have a pic for that weapon, I salvaged it asap.

edit.
In fact, I cafted about 4 of those nodachi or w/e the name of the 2h sword is, and only 1 was "ok"


Blizz already said that not all affixes are not in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if the higher quality tiers of current affixes were not in either. Also, if your crafting anything above level 6, then the reason those are OP'ed is because no monster can drop gear above that level in the beta due to 99% of the monsters in the beta are levels 1-5.
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they fixed the crafted items :P barely any to choose from now in the Beta hah
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80 Human Priest
690
Posts: 141
Let's make a couple of assumptions here(because this whole debate is speculation at best):

1. blizzard knows what they are doing

2. let's not forget that a couple of patches back that the player was unable to train the blacksmith past a certain point due to materials or essences (can't remember exactly), that you had to acquire from higher difficulties. Let's assume that this system is still in place, and when you get to a certain level with the blacksmith, you will be required to salvage gear from different difficulties (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/crafting-material/).

3. crafting is going to be very similar to what it is in WoW w/ patch 4.2 & 4.3, my example is that best in slot for a lot of classes are crafted items, (excluding some heroic gear), but the patterns for those are so hard to get and the material requirements such a pain to acquire, that yea the perks of these crafted items are, an extra gem slot, the added stat bump is there to reward the more player for time and effort.

Legendary weapons, don't even get me started on that. That's whole different balance/reward issue.
Edited by Xxpriest on 3/16/2012 3:32 PM PDT
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Posts: 147
gonna be kinda hard at lvl 60 to just farm this stuff. Possible yes, but who care's about lvl 13? really? Getting the yellows to drop just to craft the lvl 60 yellow's will be a grind anyway you look at it.
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You'll notice that most other MMO games do this same thing by giving you gear/weapons as quest rewards. They will always be better than about 80-95% of the items dropped around that same level.

This prevents the game from getting too challenging for those that have been very unlucky on drops. However, if too many dropped items were better than the quest rewards, then the process of leveling would be too easy and therefore boring.

If you have 4 or 5 equipped items that the dev intended you to have and 2 items that are stronger than the stuff they basically hand you.. then you'll experience the game as intended.

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Posts: 71
I don't see what's wrong with crafting a good item for a slot you have been getting !@#$ luck with. In diablo 2 I have had situations where my hat was level 12 when I was level 20 because it was a decent yellow and all of my other hat drops were white and then I BOUGHT my hat from a vender. What's wrong with instead of pouring items into vendors to buy a random item, dusting those same items to craft one? There was a place you could buy random specialized items in diablo 2 after all.
EDIT:
Also Blizzard is in charge of WoW. Which has enchanters and crafters.
Edited by Andylink on 3/16/2012 11:51 AM PDT
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