Diablo® III

Diablo 2

I've been in the beta for months now and I've sunk a ton of time into it. I have a good feeling of where the beginning of Diablo 3 is at. For fun, I decided to play the equivalent amount of Diablo 2 and really get a good comparison.

First, you better believe I checked that hardcore button. Apparently Diablo 3 is way easier and since I haven't played the beginning of Diablo 2 in a really long time I thought I'd up the ante. I picked Paladin. Normally I'm all about the Sorceress, but I'd rather gauge my eyes out then play through the misery that is early game Diablo 2 caster. Besides, the Paladin has cool shields and I'm definitely going to need it. My initial goal was to play to the Blood Raven, since apparently the SK is 1/3 of act 1, I figure that would be about equivalent. At least, as far as quests are concerned.

These are my thoughts:

Difficulty
Insanely easy. At no point in time was I ever afraid of dying, nor did I ever come close. Monsters largely ignored me until the Stony Field and even then they did pitiful damage. I one shot pretty much everything from beginning to end. It was so easy in fact, I decided to continue all the way to Tristram because I blew through the Blood Raven quest without even using a health potion. She seriously didn't even scratch me and died in ~4 hits from my normal weapon swing. I ended with Griswold and a pack of champions on me whilst I was cursed with Amplify Damage. I could have got up and made a sandwich without worry.

Atmosphere
This game is too damn bright and colorful. I feel like I'm frolicking through fields of happiness. Act 1 is overcast at worst. To top it of, after I get my Rogue hireling she casts a spell that makes things sparkle. All I need now are some shirtless "werewolves". The beginning of Diablo 2 isn't even remotely evil or dark. I think I saw a couple of dead bodies. Nothing even close to the level of death and sheer gore that's involved in early Diablo 3, or Diablo 1 for that matter. Out of the 3 games, Diablo 2 definitely falls as the weakest in that category.

Stat points
Ya, so I looked at how much strength was needed for the best armor in the blacksmith (36), got that and dropped the rest into vitality. Why? Because I didn't need dexterity yet and energy is useless. What a waste of time and a system. It's funny because I don't remember ever doing anything else with any of my other characters. There's no real choice there, you put the points into the only things useful. I guess I could have dumped them all into Energy. Yay for a large mana pool! But hey, at least it's my choice right? I choose to fail!

Skill system
Oh wow. I forgot just how bad it is. I leveled up and had the distinct honor of deciding which useless skill I would sink a single point into and not use. Sacrifice won. In retrospect, perhaps I should have used it to hurt myself and give the monsters a better chance. By the end of my trial I was ~level 8 and I still didn't have an active skill to use, but I had 5 skill points and 2 useless auras sitting there! No wonder people are so defensive of the basic attack, you use it for way too long in Diablo 2. I'm not even going to get into the lack of being able to freely test abilities out.

Even if the beginning of Diablo 3 is easy, at least I get to use awesome spells instead of my basic attack. If a game was to be release this year with the same systems as Diablo 2 it would fail. Compared to the Diablo 3 beta, that wasn't fun at all.
Edited by Scowarr on 3/1/2012 7:06 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4745
Posts: 128
I get your point but Diablo 2 was not a bad game. Neither is Diablo 3.
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85 Undead Priest
0
Posts: 524
Yes, it is a well known fact that Diablo 2 was a horrible mess. Anyone that denies that fact is a Blizzard North fanboy.
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Posts: 499
03/01/2012 07:09 PMPosted by Eriu
I get your point but Diablo 2 was not a bad game. Neither is Diablo 3.


You're right Diablo 2 is an awesome game but it's dated. There are definite design flaws in game, which we really can't ignore because of the standards that we have now. D2 kicks !@# but compared to D3 beta it's a hot mess.
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diablo 2 was good for game play it was the best selling game and still is but d3 is way better i think in my eyes and mind
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Posts: 4,091
03/01/2012 07:12 PMPosted by Luphold
Yes, it is a well known fact that Diablo 2 was a horrible mess.


...which is why it's #7 on PC Gamer's top 100 games of all time, right?
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Posts: 2,727
...which is why it's #7 on PC Gamer's top 100 games of all time, right?


#1: Deus Ex
#2: WoW
#3: Oblivion
#4: Team Fortress 2
#5: Half-Life 2
#6: Rome: Total War
...
#22: Morrowind
...
#41: Doom
...
#76: Baldur's Gate 2
...
#86: Starcraft
You're really going to quote that list?
Edited by Saigyouji on 3/1/2012 7:36 PM PST
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85 Undead Priest
0
Posts: 524
03/01/2012 07:20 PMPosted by Miraa
Yes, it is a well known fact that Diablo 2 was a horrible mess.


...which is why it's #7 on PC Gamer's top 100 games of all time, right?


PC Gamer is a paid-for reviewer with no journalistic integrity, this is a well known fact.
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03/01/2012 07:12 PMPosted by Luphold
Diablo 2 was a horrible mess


It wasn't when it came out, it definitely is now. I'm glad that the D3 crew took a good hard look at the systems in D2.
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No bias in this post, obviously.
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85 Undead Priest
0
Posts: 524
03/01/2012 08:21 PMPosted by Scowarr
Diablo 2 was a horrible mess


It wasn't when it came out, it definitely is now. I'm glad that the D3 crew took a good hard look at the systems in D2.


You never played D2 at launch, then. The game barely worked out of the box.
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03/01/2012 08:27 PMPosted by D3BETA
No bias in this post, obviously.

03/01/2012 07:05 PMPosted by Scowarr
These are my thoughts:


No, obviously not.

03/01/2012 08:28 PMPosted by Luphold
You never played D2 at launch, then.


I did, day 1. I don't recall any outstanding, but that was a long time ago. Wouldn't surprise me really. Regardless, I was generalizing the time frame.
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OP is fail.

Act 1 normal on HC or SC is easy. Go down to worldstone keep on hell and get blasted by a gloam.

Most areas are bright, the whole game doesn't take place in hell, lore is involved.

Of course you put points into stats that are useful, the !@#$ else would you do with stat points?

Sac > Melee hit, if you don't want to use it, don't. It's your choice.
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Posts: 3,203
+1 OP.

I see where you are coming from and it's a gorgeous place. YOU GET IT.

OP is fail.

Act 1 normal on HC or SC is easy. Go down to worldstone keep on hell and get blasted by a gloam.

Most areas are bright, the whole game doesn't take place in hell, lore is involved.

Of course you put points into stats that are useful, the !@#$ else would you do with stat points?

Sac > Melee hit, if you don't want to use it, don't. It's your choice.


He doesn't.
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Posts: 2,969
1. difficulty... Im a diablo2 veteran, and I have to disagree with ya on the difficulty. Especialy with a melee char... they are terrible at low levels. Blood raven should have been annoying at the least. Im not saying it was insanely hard or nothing but not using a health pot before blood raven sounds like a blatent lie to me. (unless the most recent patch really reduced the difficulty)

2. atmosphere... yeah it sucked in d2 a1 lol...

3. stat points.... there are builds that utilize energy (es sorcs) and a lot of builds utilize dexterity for max block. while its not the most finely balanced, the d2 stat system isnt bad and each stat has its uses to veteran players. Not every build uses every stat, big deal.

4. skill points.... you had to be clever and actualy gaze upon the entire skill trees to think of a build ahead of time, adding points to the appropriate synergies for a viable late-game build. Yes this takes a lot of time... and a lot of trial and error to someone who doesnt know anything about the game and doesnt have a friend to bestow knowledgable information on a build.

People have extreme difficulty learning how to get good at d2... it takes anyone a very long time to actualy get good at the game (unless they had friends to teach them everything) This made knowledge very valuable in D2. In d2 you NEVER stoped learning. The game they created may be flawed in many ways, but there is not a single game that can compare when it comes to the value of knowledge imo.


as a paladin you should be using might, smite, sacrifice and defiance in any combo at that low level. focusing on a single skill to boost its power is a must. You cant really make a paladin and expect to experiment in all the different skills... he is going to be weak. That doesnt mean you cant experiment, it means you have to make a new character to experiment and if you dont have a build nailed then your char will be terrible.

Diablo 2 is really an end game-game though... as little content as there is at the end-game its all about making a perfect char and dueling. while new players enjoy the trials and errors of the regular game... veterans realize its all just to teach you the skills you need to have to be a great dueler.

The game honestly takes a LOT of knowledge, I knew several people for several years that continued to learn and learn, all the while always thinking they knew everything and were d2 gods to only realize that they had much more to learn. The game is a masterpiece.

Anyone who sais they didnt take years to get good at d2 is lying or in denial, or they had friends to teach them everything within a few months.
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You can't even begin to compare difficulties of either of the games in act 1.

Diablo 3 has a better start than Diablo 2. Serious game changer there.

+1 OP.

I see where you are coming from and it's a gorgeous place. YOU GET IT.

OP is fail.

Act 1 normal on HC or SC is easy. Go down to worldstone keep on hell and get blasted by a gloam.

Most areas are bright, the whole game doesn't take place in hell, lore is involved.

Of course you put points into stats that are useful, the !@#$ else would you do with stat points?

Sac > Melee hit, if you don't want to use it, don't. It's your choice.


He doesn't.


Coming from a land where bashing a 12 year old game's outdated systems to try and make Diablo 3 look better? Must be coming from the land of Blizzard. Both beginnings are bland. Diablo 3 will have a better start, skill-wise but that's about it. It's far to early to even begin to compare the two games. I was merely pointing out the what should have been the obvious, but I guess not. "I was level 8.. basic attack... use it way too long" I just don't understand how this has any relevance at all. You get zeal at what? 12? 20 minutes or less of gameplay?
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I just don't understand how this has any relevance at all. You get zeal at what? 12? 20 minutes or less of gameplay?


Definitely played for more than 20 minutes. Regardless, it has relevance because in the same amount of time invested in Diablo 3 you're using spells and abilities that look and feel awesome. It's generally just a lack of awesome in the D2 skill system. Hell, my main sorc didn't even get to start feeling awesome until 30. That's fun. I guess.

As for the rest of your post you must have missed the point of the thread. People act like Diablo's systems are the be-all-end-all. I'm suggesting they're looking through nostalgia glasses; the systems really aren't that great.

1. difficulty... Im a diablo2 veteran, and I have to disagree with ya on the difficulty. Especialy with a melee char... they are terrible at low levels. Blood raven should have been annoying at the least. Im not saying it was insanely hard or nothing but not using a health pot before blood raven sounds like a blatent lie to me. (unless the most recent patch really reduced the difficulty)


I'm a Diablo 2 veteran as well. I grinded out that dirty level 99; I know how the rest of the game goes and it's awesome. I'm just saying the beginning isn't what people think it is.
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