Diablo® III

HC build theorizing

Posts: 71
heres what i would use in hardcore with changes made to the monk in mind.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#VeYhWc!YVa!ccZa.a

so im thinking:
Crippling Wave as spirit generator: 10% extra damage mobs take
Tempest Rush: reduce damage mobs do by 20%
Blinding Flash: CC with chance to have mobs attack each other.
Mantra of Healing: heals will be essential to survive in hc.

will be using:
Exploding Palm: can change rune to generate more spirit. and
Lashing Tail Kick as main spenders.

Passives:
Chant of Resonance can be changed for something else idk.
Near Death Experience is a must for hc can save ur life
Resolve to further reduce damage taken.

have any advice? share it.

want to post ur hc build? do it. all criticism is welcomed.
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90 Undead Warlock
12675
Posts: 3,487
I intend to use Crippling Wave certainly, but the 20% reduced damage done is much stronger than 10% increased damage taken. I'll be shocked if Tempest Rush is a remotely viable choice for Inferno, and certainly if you only want it for 20% reduced damage you may as well be using Crippling Wave.

With the healing nerf I don't think MoH will be as vital, and certainly the +healing done rune isn't going to be the best option I'd imagine-- I'd probably go with +20% resistance instead.

Exploding Palm will be a spirit spender, but it does fill the role of an AoE ability that you don't really have now (I wouldn't really count LTK)

So here's what I would change for your build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#VZYhWc!YVa!ZbZcaY

And here's what I currently intend to use personally (exclusively for multiplayer):
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#VZUjXc!YXa!ZbbZbY
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Posts: 196
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#QZkYVg!UVa!bcaYZZ

pretty sure those are the passives i'll use
idk everything is subject to change whatever i do it'll be after i solo through hell on softcore first to get the hang of it i'm sure
but i like this build blind-dash in-combo combo-dash out-skill would love to get some slow goin on

i do know that i wont be running around with mantras up all the time with melee characters i hate time activation i'm sure i'll have healing but i dont plan on relying on it much on the bar
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Tempest Rush, in it's current form, will be a staple for every Hardcore Build in both grup and solo. Why? Because you can't be snared while channeling, and you can rune it to snare monsters for 80% without any collision. Dashing Strike has a much, much cooler "feel," in my opinion, but it simply is nowhere near as effective as Tempest Rush from a functional perspective. Dashing strike's versatility is limited to a target, whereas tempest rush can simply be spammed for the same purpose (getting to a target), escaping, or helping your team escape.

Tailwind rune is also a possibility for Tempest Rush, depending on if you want to be more effective in saving your own !@# or your teammate's (Tailwind rune would be more suited for the former, I would think).

Ultimate hardcore group support build -

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#VedUSX!aVW!ZbZbac

- Insane damage debuff potential

- Extremely powerful rotatable defensive cooldowns

- Mobility and control of massive group via tempest rush

Can obviously be tweaked depending on what type of encounters you're looking at.

I don't see how anyone could die barring being extremely undergeared/unprepared for the encounter or making a huge mistake.

Most people won't want to play this build because of it's inherent support nature, but in a hardcore group setting a Monk that can/will play this effectively is going to be much sought after.
Edited by D3BETA on 3/11/2012 11:35 AM PDT
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90 Undead Warlock
12675
Posts: 3,487
I guess I can see Tempest Rush as a utility snare with that rune, and it being quite good at it-- and I had no idea it prevented you from being snared as well. However it still leaves you with zero decent spirit spenders for damage purposes.

Realistically, then, I think you're going to have to swap out one of your other abilities. Obviously you want a mantra, so you're left to jettison the worst of Serenity, IS, and BoH.

Serenity runed for Tranquility is absolutely beastly for multiplayer, so that's going to stay. You then have Breath of Heaven versus Inner Sanctuary runed for healing... obviously one of these two is going to be the far more viable healing option, and while IS is really cool in theory, it's also tiny, so I don't see it being useful often for its original purpose (at least not without a very concentrated choke).

MoE with Divine Protection is actually a really good option I forgot about, I don't much like Dodge when I could get flat damage reduction instead though, which is why I'd been planning on MoC-- but with those values nerfed I might reevaluate. I'm still not sure if the clutch ability from this outweighs say the armor rune though, especially with Serenity (Tranquility) available.

Your rune choice for BoH isn't necessarily bad, but I'm not sure it's something I'd use-- it's a great opportunity to pick up free damage via Blazing Wrath, but it seems like you're really dead set against doing any damage at all :P I guess it largely depends on what enemies are actually affected by the fear.

I really don't like Sixth Sense as a passive-- 1 it's dodge (not DR), 2 it's only based on a portion of crit, and 3 crit isn't going to be nearly as high as Dex anyway (I'm looking at you, Seize the Initiative!). Near Death Experience also seems super redundant since you already have 2 saves.

Anyway, here's what I would change in your build (and obviously some of it's debatable like the BoH rune-- passives are probably the one thing I'd definitely have changed if anything though):
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#VedUcX!aXY!ZbZbYb
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Well that was actually my point. The build is meant to be virtually pure support (control, survivability, mobility) for keeping a hardcore party alive. Your role is not to do damage, which is why I emphasized the fact that most players will avoid this type of build.

If you want more offense, switch some stuff out, but for Hardcore party support that build is king.


I really don't like Sixth Sense as a passive-- 1 it's dodge (not DR), 2 it's only based on a portion of crit, and 3 crit isn't going to be nearly as high as Dex anyway (I'm looking at you, Seize the Initiative!). Near Death Experience also seems super redundant since you already have 2 saves
.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but dodge affects all damage types, even CC, making it potentially more valuable than armor or even life considering you can dodge stuns, fears, etc. Of course this depends on how the math works, and your overall gearing choices. You could be right, though, I didn't take time to do the math because it's fairly futile to do when we aren't taking into account gear.

You can never have enough "saves" in hardcore, especially if you're planning on playing this build how it should be played, I.e. tempest rushing everywhere for control and debuffing enormous groups of mobs.

Your rune choice for BoH isn't necessarily bad, but I'm not sure it's something I'd use-- it's a great opportunity to pick up free damage via Blazing Wrath, but it seems like you're really dead set against doing any damage at all :P I guess it largely depends on what enemies are actually affected by the fear.


I'm assuming at 1.5 second fear it should be effective on every monster in the game, even bosses. It could either be invaluable or virtually useless (in comparison) depending.
Edited by D3BETA on 3/11/2012 2:29 PM PDT
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Having considered your build, I now somewhat agree with the additional of lashing tail kick because of it's defensive uses, combined with it's offensive potential. It really comes down to how much spirit this build will generate, and if the monk will have enough to make use of LTK compared with Inner Sanctuary.

Of course this will all come down to VERSATILITY. I.e. how good are you at tweaking your build depending on the encounter.
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Posts: 71
how bout this build.
MoH +10% vitality is very useful, 3k heal over 3seconds plus 5k for activation using transcendence not that bad i suppose.

and well the rest is the same

i still like blinding flash better than inner sanctuary but as i have not used any i dont know which is better.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#VeYhWc!aYV!ZcZYaa

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90 Undead Warlock
12675
Posts: 3,487
One thing I'd note, lafu, is that armor also applies to all damage types, as does resistance (at least the +20% to all resistances you'd potentially get from MoH). I prefer DR to Dodge because it smooths out the damage much better. I suppose there is the chance to dodge cc, but I'm not sure that's worth giving up consistent reduction for something totally random.

I also brought up the damage you're doing because it doesn't really cost you much to put in a single spirit spender. It's better to have the option, certainly... sometimes the best defense is a good offense, but really if you can have both why wouldn't you anyway :P

iwinlol, I don't know if you've looked at the patch 14 changes but basically every healing effect was reduced:
http://www.diablofans.com/news/1112-diablo-3-patch-14-information/

I'd say if you're going to use MoH 20% resistance to all types is stronger than 10% vitality though... and unless you're trying for the 80% snare on Tempest Rush (only for the sake of party members) I still don't think it's particularly useful.
Edited by Freohr on 3/11/2012 3:28 PM PDT
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One thing I'd note, lafu, is that armor also applies to all damage types, as does resistance (at least the +20% to all resistances you'd potentially get from MoH). I prefer DR to Dodge because it smooths out the damage much better. I suppose there is the chance to dodge cc, but I'm not sure that's worth giving up consistent reduction for something totally random.


I'd argue that as dodge chance gets higher it's randomness gets lower, i.e. your ability to react to incoming damage. I can see a relatively low dodge chance being extremely variable, but that's why you would try to reach an overall balance between armor/dodge/block to avoid linear diminishing returns and maximize mitigation returns.

It also depends if stuns/fears will play a huge part in champion/boss encounters. If they do, dodging/blocking one (or a combination) of these could literally save your life or your team's, while only having armor would help you survive during the stun/fear.
Edited by D3BETA on 3/11/2012 3:43 PM PDT
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90 Undead Warlock
12675
Posts: 3,487
I'm going to cite a super extreme sort of situation here, just to illustrate a point (you've been warned!). So while the numbers maybe aren't reasonable hopefully you get my meaning :P

Let's say you have 75% dodge, and 0% DR, with a health pool of 10000. Just for good measure, enemies hit for 7000 >.>

You won't often get hit, but when you do it hurts. You also have a 1/16 chance of getting 2 shot.

If you instead had 0% dodge and 75% DR, in the long run you'll take the exact same amount of damage, but it'll be a lot smoother, with you getting hit for only 1750 each attack... So no matter what you're surviving 6 attacks, which also gives you more time to recover via globes/MoH/BoH/whatever without actually being in imminent danger.

I guess my point is even with 98% dodge or something obscene, if you don't have a solid amount of DR you're still in a very scary situation.
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