Diablo® III

inferno...

(Locked)

Posts: 701
03/13/2012 03:32 PMPosted by Kaivax


True...but name ONE Blizzard game that was tuned to perfection from day 1.....that would be ZERO.

Everyone of Blizzards games could be tuned, re-tuned, and then tuned again, the point being, the game needs to be released sometime.

I have NO DOUBT in my mind, that "tuning" will continue all the way through Diablo 3's life cycle....it is not going to end with release.

OVER tuning can also be a bad thing...

Look at WOW, many people, including myself, would say that game is now a "broken shell" of its former self due to "over tuning".


I didn't say anything about perfection. Nor did I say that there wouldn't be adjustments to any aspect of the game post-release.

The OP in this thread was about inferno difficulty - a very broad subject in terms of tuning. How difficult the game plays and how difficult we want the game to play in inferno difficulty are things that don't have to wait until release to be determined and adjusted.


I think people are just worried about Blizzard taking the WoW route and nerfing things to the ground so everyone can "experience it".

However, I don't think people need to worry. This game has 4 different difficulties. Everyone will at least get to experience the entire game on normal which is what Blizzard wants. That way they can challenge us the rest of the way. The only time I'd be willing to accept a noticeable nerf to content, is right as a new expansion is released with newer and more challenging content available. Only if the expansion provides a lot of new content as I'm talking more than Act 5 in LoD.

The best way to balance Inferno is around needing the best gear you can obtain before heading into early Inferno. Then mid-Inferno should need some gear from early Inferno and the end of Inferno should need gear obtained from most of Inferno. Now I'm not saying that you should have to have all the best gear to get through Inferno. If you lack some gear, you should be able to make it up with a lot of skill/knowledge and/or great teamwork with friends. But if you don't have those things, then being decked out in gear should be a must to get through it.
Posts: 1,142
03/13/2012 03:32 PMPosted by Kaivax
How difficult the game plays and how difficult we want the game to play in inferno difficulty are things that don't have to wait until release to be determined and adjusted.


You can try.

But I bet optimal strategies will come out, everyone will know about them very quickly once they are, and then everyone will be playing inferno with these builds.
Posts: 55
ok seeing all the lie and random stuff here make me realize how some people shouldn't be allowed to post at all

Omega you do know that there is end game in D2

and the fact that you think hell is a joke in D2 show how much you know about hell in D2,there is 1 class only that only come close to being death proof and even then you can die with it on pure bad luck or lag spike,just 1 week ago i was running a Baal run on my 96 hammerdin and got totally %!@#d because of bad luck and he as pretty much the best gear you can have on him,and that is 1 OP class compared to the other that can't even come close to doing it that way without that kind of risk free run

and don't even get me started on WoW,can we plz stop with the trolling and misinformation,people on these forum are getting confused enough already


anyway back on the subject

unless it changed the only way to get endgame tier piece is through inferno,and seeing as how game turn out these days and how people think i wouldn't be surprised it will end up just getting easier and easier as patch go through and go easy mode but in a slow pace just like WoW did and always do,also gamer today have no skill and put no effort into anything and just want everything to be given to them right away so of course they will QQ,the thing to really ask yourself is will blizz do it...it would make them alots more money if they would since some people will be pissed if they get blocked out of some of the gear/content

in the end they will just end up looking at how many people whine for them to give in..and with the expansion which is inevitable its bound to happen also for the sake of the end game to continue evolving
Posts: 1,000
The best way to balance Inferno is around needing the best gear you can obtain before heading into early Inferno. Then mid-Inferno should need some gear from early Inferno and the end of Inferno should need gear obtained from most of Inferno. Now I'm not saying that you should have to have all the best gear to get through Inferno. If you lack some gear, you should be able to make it up with a lot of skill/knowledge and/or great teamwork with friends. But if you don't have those things, then being decked out in gear should be a must to get through it.


That's where I disagree.

The hardest difficulty should require the best gear available in game paired with very high skill. I don't think people should be able to do inferno just because they bought all the best inferno gear on their character. It should take a decent amount of skill even in the best gear to complete it.

The problem with games that scale around gear is that skilled players with gear run out of content. Skill should always be set extremely high so that players won't out-skill content. Skill is something players can ALWAYS improve on, while gear will eventually be capped out.
Posts: 114
03/13/2012 03:34 PMPosted by Omega
1 week if it's a joke to anyone with a brain

You mean like hell was in D2? I very much doubt it. Hell was a joke in D2, a huge one. Because you could out level the monsters. At level 90+ your stats were so high you just wrecked things even in full MF sets.
The idea being inferno is you will NEVER out level monsters, they will always out level you (by 1 level). To survive you won't be able to just sit there in your full MF set and go to town. You will need planning, you will need to balance your gear. etc. If it's too easy i'm confident they will buff it. D1 and D2 never had an end game before. So this is entirely something new. Having an actual end game is certainly a step up. Sure at some point you will have best items in game and it may get easier, but that's what content patches are for, new ladder seasons, etc. I really don't expect the grim fate that you do for inferno.

Blizzard did that A LOT in WoW.

no they didn't. As an end game raider in wow as well as a Diablo fan for years. I can tell you that end game is still a challenge, just because they release easier versions of something in wow doesn't make it remotely the same. But guess what D3 already has? easier versions to start with. They have no need to nerf inferno for people to "see the content" they already saw it, 3 other times. That argument doesn't stand at all.


End game became a joke in WoW. Thats what finally made me quit. Raids became EZ mode.
MMO's are EZ mode games in general....but so is diablo.
Posts: 601
Now is the time for tuning. Tuning has been going on for a while, and will continue to go on until the game plays as close as possible to the way we want it to.

That should be accomplished before the day of release, not after.



Would like to believe this.

Then I think of how the nerfs to heroic modes of Firelands and DS... Which has ruined WoW raiding for me... In order for all the baddies to see all the content (which I thought is what LFR and normal mode was for)...

And I realize it will happen the same way in D3... As soon as people start quitting, They will nerf it so that the worst players can clear it, and the game will be ruined.
It won't be nerfed so everyone can experience it, because there's nothing new to experience. It's the same game but harder.


Exactly^^
Also who says they cant add on to this game.
Posts: 682
There's always going to be some jackass who gets their !@# whooped then figure out the key thing they were doing wrong. Then they'll come to the forums and say inferno is too easy. The game will be hard for some, easy for others, and there's always going to be someone that complains. The game's not going to be the problem, the forum is.

As usual.
Posts: 701
03/13/2012 07:31 PMPosted by TianZi
The best way to balance Inferno is around needing the best gear you can obtain before heading into early Inferno. Then mid-Inferno should need some gear from early Inferno and the end of Inferno should need gear obtained from most of Inferno. Now I'm not saying that you should have to have all the best gear to get through Inferno. If you lack some gear, you should be able to make it up with a lot of skill/knowledge and/or great teamwork with friends. But if you don't have those things, then being decked out in gear should be a must to get through it.


That's where I disagree.

The hardest difficulty should require the best gear available in game paired with very high skill. I don't think people should be able to do inferno just because they bought all the best inferno gear on their character. It should take a decent amount of skill even in the best gear to complete it.

The problem with games that scale around gear is that skilled players with gear run out of content. Skill should always be set extremely high so that players won't out-skill content. Skill is something players can ALWAYS improve on, while gear will eventually be capped out.


I thought about that before I posted, and it would really suck to be extremely skilled and not be able to get through Inferno in a reasonable time frame because you're having horrible luck finding the gear good enough to trade for something better. Then there's always going to be that temptation to trade your early findings for real life money when things will be worth a lot more.

Either way, my scenario or yours and I'm fine with it. I don't mind it being too hard and balanced around the best gear in the game up until that point. I've been one of the first few people in the world to get through some of WoW's hardest content before it got nerfed or before people started to out gear it so I don't mind any challenge Blizzard throws at me in Diablo 3 as the Diablo series has always been my favorite.
Posts: 701
03/14/2012 06:56 AMPosted by Spits

You mean like hell was in D2? I very much doubt it. Hell was a joke in D2, a huge one. Because you could out level the monsters. At level 90+ your stats were so high you just wrecked things even in full MF sets.
The idea being inferno is you will NEVER out level monsters, they will always out level you (by 1 level). To survive you won't be able to just sit there in your full MF set and go to town. You will need planning, you will need to balance your gear. etc. If it's too easy i'm confident they will buff it. D1 and D2 never had an end game before. So this is entirely something new. Having an actual end game is certainly a step up. Sure at some point you will have best items in game and it may get easier, but that's what content patches are for, new ladder seasons, etc. I really don't expect the grim fate that you do for inferno.


no they didn't. As an end game raider in wow as well as a Diablo fan for years. I can tell you that end game is still a challenge, just because they release easier versions of something in wow doesn't make it remotely the same. But guess what D3 already has? easier versions to start with. They have no need to nerf inferno for people to "see the content" they already saw it, 3 other times. That argument doesn't stand at all.


End game became a joke in WoW. Thats what finally made me quit. Raids became EZ mode.


This isn't entirely true. Maybe the new LFR or Normal modes were easy just like Diablo 3 on Normal and I'm sure Nightmare will be relatively easy. But when Blizzard releases new content in WoW, their Heroic content is very challenging. After 3-4 months of 95% of guilds wiping to it do they finally nerf it. Again, I hope that doesn't happen in Diablo 3, but WoW is a game that is constantly releasing new content, so even though I disagree with it, I can understand why they eventually nerf their challenging content.

People just remember WoW in the past where there was 1 difficulty and it was hard. So a majority of players never got to see end game content when it was relevant. Now that WoW has a Diablo style approach in the sense of having different difficulties, everyone jumps on the bandwagon crying that WoW is too easy just because the noobs can finally see end game content on the easier difficulties which is exactly what Diablo 3 will be like anyways.
ITT: Stupid people think that 'tuning' is something other than what occurs at the very end of development, start ignorantly proclaiming 'sign of delay.' More news at 11.
Posts: 701
Anyone play WoW from the beginning and notice this correlation or is it coincidence? When WoW was more difficult in Vanilla & TBC the game grew at a rapid pace. Once Wotlk came out with Naxx 25 which was incredibly easy, and then Wotlk in general was just a much easier game that eventually started to introduce Heroic modes, WoW stopped growing. In fact, for awhile, their subscription numbers started to decline. Then Cata comes out and it's just as easy and their numbers declined some more.

Now maybe it's just coincidence and WoW finally ran its course, but I actually believe that when they started to appeal to the casuals and noobs and slap the hardcore players across the face, that their game stopped growing. I think casuals and noobs, as much as they wanted to feel special doing the same stuff as better players, the carrot on the stick approach kept stringing them along anyways as there was still always something for them to do and look forward to.

But when Blizzard made the game easy enough for everyone, not only did a lot of hardcore players quit, but even a lot of the casual and noobs ran out of things to play for as they finally got to see and experience everything. Nothing else to look forward to until that next big patch or expansion and when people get bored, they quit.

It reminds me a bit about Counter-Strike. For the longest time CS had a steep learning curve and noobs were getting destroyed in it and the game kept growing at a rapid pace. Then they slow the game down and make it much easier for noobs and the game stops growing. Sometimes when you have a winning formula that is working, catering to casuals and noobs expecting to make more money because there are more of them doesn't always pan out that way.
Anyone play WoW from the beginning and notice this correlation or is it coincidence? When WoW was more difficult in Vanilla & TBC the game grew at a rapid pace. Once Wotlk came out with Naxx 25 which was incredibly easy, and then Wotlk in general was just a much easier game that eventually started to introduce Heroic modes, WoW stopped growing. In fact, for awhile, their subscription numbers started to decline. Then Cata comes out and it's just as easy and their numbers declined some more.

Now maybe it's just coincidence and WoW finally ran its course, but I actually believe that when they started to appeal to the casuals and noobs and slap the hardcore players across the face, that their game stopped growing. I think casuals and noobs, as much as they wanted to feel special doing the same stuff as better players, the carrot on the stick approach kept stringing them along anyways as there was still always something for them to do and look forward to.

But when Blizzard made the game easy enough for everyone, not only did a lot of hardcore players quit, but even a lot of the casual and noobs ran out of things to play for as they finally got to see and experience everything. Nothing else to look forward to until that next big patch or expansion and when people get bored, they quit.

It reminds me a bit about Counter-Strike. For the longest time CS had a steep learning curve and noobs were getting destroyed in it and the game kept growing at a rapid pace. Then they slow the game down and make it much easier for noobs and the game stops growing. Sometimes when you have a winning formula that is working, catering to casuals and noobs expecting to make more money because there are more of them doesn't always pan out that way.


Correlation != causation.
100 Worgen Druid
10910
Posts: 13
Anyone who is honestly working though Blizzard heroic content such as Heroic DS would know and should know that the content is NOT a joke. LFR, Normal modes are Blizzards way of rightly delivering content to ALL their customers, not just the few. If you honestly feel so, post on toons that have the achives for heroic modes completed and state that heroic Spine/DW is really just a joke. Inferno will be awesome, don't worry, even Blizzard can do something right :)
Posts: 71
03/13/2012 01:43 PMPosted by theSkaBoss
I think the only thing they'll do to Inferno is make it harder.


I really hope this to happen.

If they are saying that we will certainly die, I expect to see my characters facing an almost impossible feat to beat Inferno, otherwise won't be worth the effort. I loved D2 soloing and multiplayer until cheaters came up. In fact, if you try it, Hell was fun until lvl 80 or so, when it was still a challenge. I don't care taking 5 to 10 minutes to kill a fallen, if Inferno is that hard and stays like that, then I'll definitely be there.
100 Gnome Warlock
3515
Posts: 39,438
03/13/2012 03:34 PMPosted by Omega
no they didn't. As an end game raider in wow as well as a Diablo fan for years. I can tell you that end game is still a challenge, just because they release easier versions of something in wow doesn't make it remotely the same.


LOLwut? End game in WoW these days is hilariously bad compared to what it used to be in terms of actual difficulty. Is the quality of the fights and mechanics themselves are worlds better? Yes, absolutely. But difficult in terms of execution requirements and tuning? There isn't even a comparison between current content tuning and fights like C'thun, Twin Emps, or Kil'Jaedan (along with many others), and that discrepancy grows a hundred fold every time they decide to completely across the board neuter fights by 20+%.
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]