Diablo® III

How come followers only deal 15% dmg?

It doesn't make sense. If followers only deal 15% damage to bosses, I accept. But they deal only 15% damage to all foes. Now their damage is negligible. Obviously, choosing skills with more damage is stupid. Take the templar as an example. At level 15 two skills are unlocked, charge and onslaught. The former deals 150% damage but stuns enemy, the latter deals 300% damage. Both have 15s cool down. Under the current situation, the excessive 150% damage of onslaught is negligible to monsters' hp so it is stupid to choose. Why not using the mechanism that followers deal full damage to normal monsters but reduced damage to bosses?
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The stated goal of followers by Blizzard is support roles. They heal, crowd control, buff allies, debuff foes. They don't want you to rely on them for damage.
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03/17/2012 04:35 PMPosted by D3BETA
The stated goal of followers by Blizzard is support roles. They heal, crowd control, buff allies, debuff foes. They don't want you to rely on them for damage.
Then it will be stupid to choose skills like onslaught.
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How? Look at how the game works. They're free damage. They shouldn't match you, they should do some damage.

Using a heavy hitting power on them increases total damage dealt. If you're 100% of the team damage, and then they're 15% on top of that, them using a skill that increases their damage to 300% means that during that moment, your team is doing 145%. That's pretty good.

That math is wonky. It's not exactly wrong, but it's hard to explain this without a chart of some sort.
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Damage was nerfed so that they would feel truly optional. I think they succeeded. I do agree that the offensive abilities are going to generally suck however, unless they bypass the 15% damage dealt nerf.
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The community wanted followers to be viable for the whole game, so blizzard made them deal a percentage of the char's damage, which as you progress through the difficulties increases.

Makes sense to me.

However, I dont understand if they lose 85% of their damage per their items or deal 15% of the owner's damage which effectively removes the need of putting items on a follower.
Edited by Trickster on 3/20/2012 6:22 PM PDT
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I watched my Templar stab at a skeleton with a nice 12.3 dps spear i had equipped on him. at 1-2 damage per hit, it took him about 25 seconds to kill the one level 9 skeleton. While I understand Blizz's stance on having Followers be "Support Role", this seems a tad bit overdone.

On the other side of the coin, I equipped said Templar with a shield that had +4 Vitality on it. His hit points went from 385 up to 485, or exactly 25 hp per point of +vit. This seems like it may be a tad overdone as well.

My only other thought is that Blizz truly wants followers to be nothing more than an extra "meat shield" to get in the way of enemy pathing and take a few hits while providing nominal buffs.
Edited by Kungfustudnt on 3/21/2012 5:50 PM PDT
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03/21/2012 05:49 PMPosted by Kungfustudnt
On the other side of the coin, I equipped said Templar with a shield that had +4 Vitality on it. His hit points went from 385 up to 485, or exactly 25 hp per point of +vit. This seems like it may be a tad overdone as well.


Remember they don't have a full inventory for items so some stats have to do more of an effect to make up for that.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15860
03/20/2012 06:21 PMPosted by Trickster
The community wanted followers to be viable for the whole game, so blizzard made them deal a percentage of the char's damage, which as you progress through the difficulties increases.


Just to be clear, they do their own damage, via their own weapon. The Templar's damage has nothing to do with the wand my Wizard is using.

03/20/2012 06:21 PMPosted by Trickster
However, I dont understand if they lose 85% of their damage per their items or deal 15% of the owner's damage which effectively removes the need of putting items on a follower.


It's whatever weapon they have equipped. I'm also almost entirely sure it also takes into account +damage (+1-2 damage, or +2-3 elemental damage) on the weapon as well. Not sure if it also reduces +damage on shield as well (I would assume so, but now I want to try it to make sure).

They also receive a greater bonus from STR/VIT for what it's worth.

Shame that, for the most part, monsters seem to completely ignore the Templar -- it's not like D2 where a monster would switch to whatever was attacking it/closer to it; which has been rather aggravating to be honest.

Also makes the "slowed on hit" ability from the Templar kind of silly, almost nothing attacks him :P

EDIT: Now that I think about the only time I've seen a follower die was due to the Skel King's whirlwind which is an aoe.
Edited by Zheet on 3/22/2012 4:33 PM PDT
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It will be interesting to see if a fully equipped merc with good gear can get up to even 5% of the players damage output. Currently they tend to be around 1-2%

Also, the buffs they provide are nominal at best, i.e the templar buffs .... 0.5 AP per second? Why bother ...?

The enchantress still appears to offer some decent crowd control options, but aside from disrupting monster pathing, the Templar doesn't add very much atm.
Edited by Acaelus on 3/22/2012 5:58 PM PDT
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It will be interesting to see if a fully equipped merc with good gear can get up to even 5% of the players damage output. Currently they tend to be around 1-2%

Also, the buffs they provide are nominal at best, i.e the templar buffs .... 0.5 AP per second? Why bother ...?

The enchantress still appears to offer some decent crowd control options, but aside from disrupting monster pathing, the Templar doesn't add very much atm.


Templar gets a Heal to use on him or you every 15 seconds
A passive HP per second buff to you and him
15 second CD AOE stun for 3 seconds
30 Second CD aoe Knockback and heal

And he can block pathing and take hits...AND revive mid combat.

Seems pretty awesome to me
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Templar gets a Heal to use on him or you every 15 seconds
A passive HP per second buff to you and him
15 second CD AOE stun for 3 seconds
30 Second CD aoe Knockback and heal

And he can block pathing and take hits...AND revive mid combat.

Seems pretty awesome to me


This. They could have given us pets that die in 3 hits again...but they chose to give us amazing meat shields with good support abilities. Our characters do enough damage as is. In hell and inferno i'm sure the extra health sponge will be better than a few good hits per trip to town.
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He'll also be able to do around 300% weapon damage per swing at level 60 if you gear him for it.

See here for the math:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4253896405
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Yes, but at that level we'll be doing way more weapon damage, which means for the monsters to be any sort of challenge, the followers will still be effectively plinking away.
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I agree. 15% sounded low. I gave it a try. It was pretty bad. 6-7 hits to kill a generic monster that I would have pulverized in one hit? 25% or 30% would be a bit more realistic. AND I have him a 1-h weapon with about 12 DPS in the open beta.
Edited by Auragami on 4/25/2012 11:06 PM PDT
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04/24/2012 06:14 PMPosted by Blackstream
Yes, but at that level we'll be doing way more weapon damage, which means for the monsters to be any sort of challenge, the followers will still be effectively plinking away.


You may be right.

In the thread I linked, I said:

This, by itself doesn't tell us much though - we don't know yet how much health mobs will have at that level.

If health scales way beyond base weapon damage, he might still end up doing relatively insignificant damage.


We'll just have to wait until release to see.

Right now we're just saying, "This number is too small - it's gonna suck!" but we don't really KNOW that until we have the game in our hands.

The flip side of the argument is that any damage followers do is like a passive damage buff. If followers do too much damage, they become equivalent to any skill that's so powerful that it becomes a "must" in a class's spec.

Not everyone wants to use followers. If followers provided a significant damage buff, it could compel people to grudgingly use them or avoid using them but feel punished/handicapped for playing the way they really want to play.
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90 Undead Death Knight
0
Actually, if you read the Templar's "Inspire" ability carefully, it seems like the Templar was "intended" more for Barbs & Monks than the other classes:

Mana: 2 per Second (Negligible if it doesn't scale-up from Calculator numbers)
Arcane Power: 0.5 per Second (Also negligible, but not as bad as Mana)
Fury: 8% Fury per Second - 8 percent, mind you, of your total. Honestly not bad... 8 per second assuming 100 cap, or 9.6 with Animosity (120 cap)
Spirit: 12% Spirit - 12 percent, this means 12 Spirit/sec with natural cap, or 24 Spirit/sec if the presumed 100 Natural + 100 Exalted Soul proves true.

Could be even more beneficial with Barbarians & Monks if there are items that increase Fury/Spirit pools, or any natural growth to pool size.

Assuming Templars are "bad tanks" regardless of Hero Class, that ability alone makes them a natural choice for Barb/Monk, and little more than (possibly unnecessary) healbots for the other Classes.
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BUT THE WILL OF A TEMPLAR IS STRONGER!
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