Diablo® III

What abolishing/limiting Gold does to rares:

83 Tauren Druid
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I loathe the currency system in Path of Exile (for Dulu). Essentially 10 inventory slots are consumed with varying types of scrolls that you need to keep handy if you plan to buy stuff.

Further, especially in the case of scrolls of wisdom (identify in diablo terms) it makes it so that, esepecially early in a characters career, you must decide between finding out what a magical item is. I know that decision making might be fun for some, but I want to know what magical goodies I got.

I did not like their currency system, at all. It was sort of like D2's UNOFFICIAL currency of HighRunes, but instead...it was the main currency that you use for vendors and everything.
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I was intrigued until you said something about Ron Paul. I now know you are an idiot.
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03/31/2012 04:26 PMPosted by Vaelen
I was intrigued until you said something about Ron Paul. I now know you are an idiot.


ron paul 2012
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I loathe the currency system in Path of Exile (for Dulu). Essentially 10 inventory slots are consumed with varying types of scrolls that you need to keep handy if you plan to buy stuff.

Further, in the case of scrolls of wisdom (identify in diablo terms) it makes it so that, esepecially early in a characters career, you must decide between finding out what a magical item is. I know that decision making might be fun for some, but I want to know what magical goodies I got.


If you've noticed in Diablo 3, you don't need to "carry" crafting items and gold in order to use them. Just because the F2P game implements it in one manner, does not mean that Blizzard could not do better. Paying for Diablo 3, I expect Blizzard to do better. Put all the orbs and shards in a sack? End of issue.

Anyway after reading these posts I understand it that people don't really care about the scrolls, and specifically the identification system at all.

That, I guess, is a difference as a Diablo vet that I see and most people don't- Making unidentified items cool, or making them completely thoughtless. It's such a waste of an interesting system right now.

Nobody thinks it would be cool to buy unidentified items on the AH?
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go figure... no matter how many times i post that link... its always ignored (prolly bc its such a long post)

apparently people dont want to know theyre wrong.

also, to it being so long: this is a forums, we come here to read stuff, so i never understand the TLDR thing
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03/31/2012 04:26 PMPosted by Vaelen
I was intrigued until you said something about Ron Paul. I now know you are an idiot.


You completely ignored the point of my post because it had the name of a person you know and then you call me a name for it.

You must be the opposite of an idiot. Clearly.
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go figure... no matter how many times i post that link... its always ignored (prolly bc its such a long post)

apparently people dont want to know theyre wrong.

also, to it being so long: this is a forums, we come here to read stuff, so i never understand the TLDR thing


I'm reading it right now. Relax. People don't just drop everything and suddenly read a book ;)
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Posts: 1,540
They removed all scrolls so that identification is a has-been. You essentially are forced to do a one second ritual..

A meaningless gesture treating us like children: Wait 2 seconds kiddos while I show you whats already on the item but for a forced moment is clouded in mystery!

WOoooohh.

For at least me, familiar with the Diablo series since inception, it's incredibly silly.


How is running over to Cain to ask him to ID your things not a "meaningless gesture treating us like children" if the current system is? Or having to pop a scroll and ID the item? It's simply a different system and one that doesn't take up inventory space. Speaking of fearing change...

As to the OP:

I've played a fair amount of "That other game." The currency system is.. awkward. I love the idea of the crafting/item orbs, but using them as currency for vendors is really awkward and feels forced in its execution, as if they had the idea of creating a barter system with the NPCs to emphasize the destruction of a civilized world but stuck with it even though it didn't work as cool as the system seemed on paper. The worst part about the system was how much of the inventory was dedicated to currency items.
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go figure... no matter how many times i post that link... its always ignored (prolly bc its such a long post)

apparently people dont want to know theyre wrong.

also, to it being so long: this is a forums, we come here to read stuff, so i never understand the TLDR thing


I'm reading it right now. Relax. People don't just drop everything and suddenly read a book ;)


im moreso going over the logic behind why i dont understand the TLDR thing / complaining about posts being too long than getting up in arms about anything. (im relaxed)

it was also directed at clarynaa
Edited by D3BETA on 3/31/2012 5:05 PM PDT
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They removed all scrolls so that identification is a has-been. You essentially are forced to do a one second ritual..

A meaningless gesture treating us like children: Wait 2 seconds kiddos while I show you whats already on the item but for a forced moment is clouded in mystery!

WOoooohh.

For at least me, familiar with the Diablo series since inception, it's incredibly silly.


How is running over to Cain to ask him to ID your things not a "meaningless gesture treating us like children" if the current system is? Or having to pop a scroll and ID the item? It's simply a different system and one that doesn't take up inventory space. Speaking of fearing change...

As to the OP:

I've played a fair amount of "That other game." The currency system is.. awkward. I love the idea of the crafting/item orbs, but using them as currency for vendors is really awkward and feels forced in its execution, as if they had the idea of creating a barter system with the NPCs to emphasize the destruction of a civilized world but stuck with it even though it didn't work as cool as the system seemed on paper. The worst part about the system was how much of the inventory was dedicated to currency items.


I make some assumptions that people understand some basics: D1 and D2 gold was broke. Identification and Town Portals systems were broke. But they all could be improved by Blizzard.

RE: "As to the OP" Just because the other game's system is currently awkward in beta doesn't mean the entire system is permanently broke or could never be improved. Shards in bags. Orbs accessible from shared storage. Already covered (fixed") in Diablo 3.

You assumed that I think the D1 and D2 systems including Cain were great. "Fearing change"? As my other post reflects, I said that I expected Blizzard to improve on the systems. D1 and then D2 gold, portals, and identification was just broke. I kind of expected that everybody knew that by now.
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go figure... no matter how many times i post that link... its always ignored (prolly bc its such a long post)

apparently people dont want to know theyre wrong.

also, to it being so long: this is a forums, we come here to read stuff, so i never understand the TLDR thing


If I'm reading correctly, your assertion is covered under "Simplification" in that thread.

Then I'll extrapolate that what we have is a difference in thought between two groups: people who like to think, and people who don't? I'm not trying to sound disparaging but that's how I view it. Apparently the unidentified items system gets thrown right out the window for that? Too much thought and effort required?

Based on that article it seems that most people don't want to think, they don't want options, and they just want the 'A' in the A-RPG?

"I'm disappoint" :(

The TLDnR was just a way for me to try and simplify what I was getting at so that people would understand. It appears it didn't work; people that haven't played the other game don't know what I'm talking about.
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@ Shinobi, you are aware that crafting mats need to be in your inventory to be used in D3 right?
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03/31/2012 05:14 PMPosted by D3BETA
@ Shinobi, you are aware that crafting mats need to be in your inventory to be used in D3 right?


Either you're confused because the system as it is now draws from items on your person and then draws from your shared stash, or I'm confused because that has been patched since November..
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@ Shinobi, you are aware that crafting mats need to be in your inventory to be used in D3 right?


Either you're confused because the system as it is now draws from items on your person and then draws from your shared stash, or I'm confused because that has been patched since November..


I just checked, you cannot craft if the items are in your stash. And I have been in since beta 8 and do not remember it ever working where it draws items from stash.

Edit: its a freqently requested feature, but its never actually worked that way afaik.
Edited by D3BETA on 3/31/2012 5:31 PM PDT
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go figure... no matter how many times i post that link... its always ignored (prolly bc its such a long post)

apparently people dont want to know theyre wrong.

also, to it being so long: this is a forums, we come here to read stuff, so i never understand the TLDR thing


If I'm reading correctly, your assertion is covered under "Simplification" in that thread.

Then I'll extrapolate that what we have is a difference in thought between two groups: people who like to think, and people who don't? I'm not trying to sound disparaging but that's how I view it. Apparently the unidentified items system gets thrown right out the window for that? Too much thought and effort required?

Based on that article it seems that most people don't want to think, they don't want options, and they just want the 'A' in the A-RPG?

"I'm disappoint" :(

The TLDnR was just a way for me to try and simplify what I was getting at so that people would understand. It appears it didn't work; people that haven't played the other game don't know what I'm talking about.


well, the link i posted was actually not directed at you at all... nor was my TLDR statement. (the tldr was directed at anyone who doesnt like reading long posts, and the link was for clarynaa, who didnt seem to understand the stat point / skill point allocation)

D=
Edited by D3BETA on 3/31/2012 5:33 PM PDT
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Posts: 8,721
The TP system and identification are perfectly fine. In fact they're a lot less clunky than they were with scrolls. Th thing that's stopping the trade in unid'd items is that you can't post them to the AH, not that it's free to id them. It was free to id items in D2 there, and people traded in unid'd items all the time.

This seems like a solution in search of a problem.
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Posts: 1,540
How is running over to Cain to ask him to ID your things not a "meaningless gesture treating us like children" if the current system is? Or having to pop a scroll and ID the item? It's simply a different system and one that doesn't take up inventory space. Speaking of fearing change...

As to the OP:

I've played a fair amount of "That other game." The currency system is.. awkward. I love the idea of the crafting/item orbs, but using them as currency for vendors is really awkward and feels forced in its execution, as if they had the idea of creating a barter system with the NPCs to emphasize the destruction of a civilized world but stuck with it even though it didn't work as cool as the system seemed on paper. The worst part about the system was how much of the inventory was dedicated to currency items.


I make some assumptions that people understand some basics: D1 and D2 gold was broke. Identification and Town Portals systems were broke. But they all could be improved by Blizzard.

RE: "As to the OP" Just because the other game's system is currently awkward in beta doesn't mean the entire system is permanently broke or could never be improved. Shards in bags. Orbs accessible from shared storage. Already covered (fixed") in Diablo 3.

You assumed that I think the D1 and D2 systems including Cain were great. "Fearing change"? As my other post reflects, I said that I expected Blizzard to improve on the systems. D1 and then D2 gold, portals, and identification was just broke. I kind of expected that everybody knew that by now.


Yet you insult the D3 system without really much reason behind insulting it. The comment that the current system is a meaningless gesture made absolutely no sense. They've explained why they want people to identify things -- because of that Christmas present feeling -- but they also have made it pretty obvious they don't want inventory space cluttered with non-essential (that is non-gear) items. Even crafting mats have been reduced fairly significantly by removing the white components. This isn't a game in which bag packing is the main concern (as can be seen by the developers' decisions).

I fail to see how your proposed system will fix the gold and scroll systems from D2 any better than D3. I think, honestly, they'll break the system even more than D2's.

As to the issues with PoE's systems - it really isn't the inventory issues that make the system feel awkward. It is a cool concept on paper to simulate bartering, but bartering with NPC's just becomes awkward. The key for bartering is the back and forth as each party determines the value of what they want and are willing to give in non-currency terms. PoE's system was just clunky when I played with it (I played before they implemented selling gear and tried that system once for a while it was implemented, as well). It felt like it was the developers forcing a system onto the community when a non-gold currency is almost always something the community itself determines. It's like if Diablo 2 had Stones of Jordan forced as the currency of the game instead of it happening because the community's trends. PoE's NPCs working with the orbs and currency items felt like they were trying to hard to get the idea to work, as if they decided early in the development process that they didn't want gold and had a very hard time getting a system in which it worked. To me, it helps highlight why it's such a good thing that the D3 development team is so willing to sacrifice the golden calf, as it were, for their game -- from runes as items to a flat Inferno -- for the sake of the quality of the game and how it plays. An idea can be a great idea but if it doesn't play well, it probably shouldn't be in the game.

True, the PoE system theoretically can encourage people valuating different currency items for different amounts, which can theoretically be compelling and make for intriguing trade scenarios, but it most likely will come down to a forum-based evaluation. A specific unique item, or good rare, will be worth so many of a certain orb, and each orb will have a community-established value compared to each other orb. It really will just get awkward to have to go through the markets and forums to find the values of things (which will almost certainly be established even if the intended goal is to let them be on a person-by-person basis).

Don't get me wrong, I understand how broken gold was in D2, but I don't see why simply making gold worth something in D3 isn't a good fix. Civilizations develop currency for a reason -- it makes commerce function much more easily. It's the one time having that middle man of money is actually more useful. A money-based currency is easier to deal with because it is consistent and easy to communicate a value among many different parties. A non-gold based system would probably work fine if the currency that replaced it was one or two items at most that had a clear and distinct conversation rate. I would say that if PoE wanted to keep their system, they should stick to only one or two orbs (or just their scrolls) being currency rather than the whole slew of them.

In response to the OP's tl;dr -- the "value" of identifying things doesn't necessarily affect the value of unidentified things, which get their value not from the cost of identifying it but from their potential. The reason an unidentified rare may have more demand than a specific identified one is because it has the chance to be a perfect rare, and the cost of identifying an item is only a very marginal effect on item values. Interestingly, there seems to be demand both for random/uncertain results and for specific/certain results in other games. For example, in Magic the Gathering, there is demand for boosters (which provide totally uncertain and unlikely prospects for a specific rare card) and for those specific cards people are seeking.
Edited by TomBombadil on 3/31/2012 5:43 PM PDT
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Please tell me why exactly would removing gold from Diablo 3 would be so terrible? In the other game it makes items like identification scrolls and portal scrolls -important- and -valuable-. What is wrong with that?


The currency system is very important in diablo III. Not only does it allow people to 'buy' stuff, it allows people to easily form a basis for what stuff is worth. Not to mention there are already gold sinks in the game which create demand, which creates a market in both the GAH and the RMAH. You remove this, you basically have to redesign the game as gold was literally designed to drive the economy. Once removed, if people want to trade, they're gonna need something else to express relative value in like SoJs which is basically just really expensive gold, and the market will be less available to the common folk because we're back to d2 trading, unless blizzard officially supports it in their market place, at which point, if the marketplace is changed to use say inferno rare crafting mats as the currency instead of gold..... what's the real difference.

The real answer is, if you want ID scrolls and TPs to be valuable items (and clearly blizzard doesn't as they made both abilities inherent resourceless abilities because having to collect said items was annoying, you just... make them not buyable and don't give any npcs the ability to ID. Problem solved. You can keep gold, and make your scrolls valuable.

And hey, now there's a viable market for ID scrolls. (I still hate the idea though)
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