Diablo® III

Is *Anyone* Happy About Runes on Rails?

Posts: 7,159
Not 'yeah, I'm okay with this and it's the best they could do'. I mean 'this is the absolute best thing and it's 100% perfect'.

I'm not.

Oh, I'm not going to go on a long rant about how I wont buy the game and how Blizzard suck. I will (already 1 CE preorder and 1 predownload regular) and they don't.

It's just that this system...well, it seems that every time I think of a cool themed build there is one rune effect that I *really* want which only unlocks around 56-59.

There are 6 major problems with this.

1) "Forced" Experimentation while leveling. Basically, you are forced to play with runeskills you may or may not like until something better unlocks. Under the old system, via the AH and with a bit of luck you could play the build you wanted and refine it. Under the new one you have to play for (potentially) a long time to get the build you want.

2) The death of customization and specialization. Runes were initially introduced to offset the loss of 'uniqueness' in character builds due to the skill system. Runes allowed you to craft a build that was *yours* and finding ranks allowed to you continually refine and improve it. Under the new system, you are a few clicks and a cooldown away from being the same build as the guy next to you.

3) Hell is for Heroes, and Inferno is not a place I want to still be 'trying out' new skills. In Diablo 2 stuff would unlock at a reasonable rate, and by the end of normal you had your build and were just getting the extras. Under this system, it's entirely possible that you will be waiting until you have finished Hell to unlock the skill effect you want. I don't know about you, but by the time I hit Hell I really want to have my build down and be working on gear and technique.

4) Not everyone is going to get to Inferno. I thought Blizzard said a while back that most players will quit after Normal? So...rather than letting everyone play around with rank 1 runes and at least see the various effects you aren't going to let them see them at all?

5) It feels like a deliberate delay to extend Diablo 3's lifespan for casual gamers (who may not have got to 60 otherwise). It's a lot like those fighting games that lock half the roster until you've finished Arcade mode dozens of times. Basically a cheap trick to keep you playing.

6) Leveling is a huge focus of D3. This isn't WoW. Inferno will be nice, but getting there is going to take a long time and for most characters will be the majority of their lifespan. Not being able to do this as the build I want is rather lame.

However, there are two simple solutions.

1)Allow players, every 10 levels, to unlock a single runeskill of their choice, in addition to the existing system. This means that there is still something to look forward too, those of us with very specific builds in mind can enjoy them pre-Inferno and the newer players/Zarhym's Grandmother won't be affected at all.

2) Like Crafting, once a runeskill has been unlocked it is available at level 6, or when the base skill unlocks on any new characters of that class.

A third really good suggestion, made by InfernoBound is giving some free rune choices as quest rewards. I am a big fan of this idea too.
Thoughts?
Edited by Starbird on 3/28/2012 6:13 PM PDT
ok
Posts: 1,212
Well shoot. Looks like we just have to get to level 60.

Not like I was planning on doing that anyways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A
100 Tauren Druid
18850
Posts: 46
It would've been nice to farm/work for them...but I guess this is alright.
Edited by Lycurgis on 3/27/2012 5:26 PM PDT
Posts: 627
Yeah I like it a lot. Especially considering I don't have to mf run endlessly to try and find that one rune I want, or save up to buy one.

Additionally, and I think this will stand out a lot more after release, we get something new EVERY level. The grind to level 60 will be super awesome now because we get new play style options everytime we level up. As opposed to previously, leveling up at times would've only given us better stats.
Posts: 7,159
Ugh, clicked submit way too early (mistake). Still editing :)
Posts: 7,261
Clearly its not the "best" iteration they've shared with us. What it comes down to is whether or not its good enough to release a great product with, and they clearly think it is. Of course, thats not how you or I feel, but its good enough for the masses.

The difference in my eyes is a great game with 1 genre defining trait compared to 2. They're settling for 1.
Edited by blitzkrieg on 3/27/2012 4:54 PM PDT
100 Blood Elf Paladin
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Posts: 532
I'm 100% happy with the rune system.
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I don't understand what you're so upset about.

In Diablo II you didn't have all the skills to your total build (although. to be honest you build was pick a skill, save all skill points until the skill level that it unlocks at and start pouring points into that and it's synergies and that was your "build") until you got to the level it unlocked at and even then you didn't have everything at full power like you wanted.

Then when you're 60 you can finally have the build you want, much like 75-85 finally got you the build you wanted in D2...
It's not the best or close to the best implementation. Taking an item hunt and reducing it down to clicking an icon on a page makes for far less interesting, and far less compelling gameplay. Runes seemed like the one thing they didn't know exactly what to do with, so it's been given a quick fix and shoved into the game. It does its job of modifying skills, and I understand the reasons given for implementing it, but It seems more like a rush job to me, to meet an impending deadline.
Edited by D3BETA on 3/27/2012 5:05 PM PDT
Posts: 1,206
03/27/2012 05:00 PMPosted by Dourden
I'm 100% happy with the rune system.


+1

MUCH better than the finding runes way.
Posts: 7,159
I don't understand what you're so upset about.

In Diablo II you didn't have all the skills to your total build (although. to be honest you build was pick a skill, save all skill points until the skill level that it unlocks at and start pouring points into that and it's synergies and that was your "build") until you got to the level it unlocked at and even then you didn't have everything at full power like you wanted.

Then when you're 60 you can finally have the build you want, much like 75-85 finally got you the build you wanted in D2...


Updated the OP, apologies for premature submission ^_^.

Not upset, so much as this is one of the two niggling things that could take Diablo 3 from a 'great' game to merely a 'good' one in my books.

In D2...by the time you hit 30 all skills were unlocked for you and you could refine synergies and extras as you made your way through Nightmare. By the end of Nightmare you had basically everything unlocked and Hell was just about putting points in.

In D3 you are still waiting to unlock skills at the end of Hell, and can't even test them out before then.

To me, leveling up through Nightmare+ would be so much nicer if I could do it as the build I want, rather than the build I'm shackled to due to stuff not being unlocked yet.
Posts: 627
03/27/2012 05:04 PMPosted by D3BETA
It's not the best or close to the best implementation. Taking an item hunt and reducing it down to clicking an icon on a page makes for far less interesting, and far less compelling gameplay. Runes seemed like the one thing they didn't know exactly what to do with, so it's been given a quick fix and shoved into the game. It does its job of modifying skills, and I understand the reasons given for implementing it, but It seems more like a rush job to me, to meet an impending deadline.


Huh? they may change it around in future patches, but there won't be any sweeping changes like going back to item-based runes.

A few months after release, when a whole lot of people are level 60, they aren't just gonna say "okay all your skills runes are removed and non-existent", now go mf run for runes so you can get your build back. Enjoy having to use base skills until you find them.

Pretty sure were stuck with something similar to the way the current skill runes work, forever.
Posts: 29
This sounds like a fine addition. It adds a little bit of uniqueness while leveling, and once your 60 everything should even out. Plus you'll know early whether the runes you want to use are actually fun, effective and fit in your potential build.
Posts: 7,159
03/27/2012 05:08 PMPosted by Bravetarget
It's not the best or close to the best implementation. Taking an item hunt and reducing it down to clicking an icon on a page makes for far less interesting, and far less compelling gameplay. Runes seemed like the one thing they didn't know exactly what to do with, so it's been given a quick fix and shoved into the game. It does its job of modifying skills, and I understand the reasons given for implementing it, but It seems more like a rush job to me, to meet an impending deadline.


Huh? they may change it around in future patches, but there won't be any sweeping changes like going back to item-based runes.

A few months after release, when a whole lot of people are level 60, they aren't just gonna say "okay all your skills runes are removed and non-existent", now go mf run for runes so you can get your build back. Enjoy having to use base skills until you find them.

Pretty sure were stuck with something similar to the way the current skill runes work, forever.


The suggestion at the end of my post would be extremely easy to implement, would have zero effect on players who prefer the new system and would help the rest of us a *lot* :)
Posts: 627
Huh? they may change it around in future patches, but there won't be any sweeping changes like going back to item-based runes.

A few months after release, when a whole lot of people are level 60, they aren't just gonna say "okay all your skills runes are removed and non-existent", now go mf run for runes so you can get your build back. Enjoy having to use base skills until you find them.

Pretty sure were stuck with something similar to the way the current skill runes work, forever.


The suggestion at the end of my post would be extremely easy to implement, would have zero effect on players who prefer the new system and would help the rest of us a *lot* :)


No, the suggestion is horrible. With players able to "choose a skill rune to unlock" takes the whole purpose out of the progress part of leveling.

With your mindset, might as well let us choose which abilities to unlock when we level too, right?
Edited by Bravetarget on 3/27/2012 5:14 PM PDT
Huh? they may change it around in future patches, but there won't be any sweeping changes like going back to item-based runes.

A few months after release, when a whole lot of people are level 60, they aren't just gonna say "okay all your skills runes are removed and non-existent", now go mf run for runes so you can get your build back. Enjoy having to use base skills until you find them.

Pretty sure were stuck with something similar to the way the current skill runes work, forever.

I agree that they won't change the basic system, it's pretty much set in stone. That's basically why I'm a bit disappointed with what they came up with in this area of the game. They probably will add to it, like they did when they added synergies to D2, and those additions will probably make things better.
Posts: 7,159
The suggestion at the end of my post would be extremely easy to implement, would have zero effect on players who prefer the new system and would help the rest of us a *lot* :)


No, the suggestion is horrible. With players able to "choose a skill rune to unlock" takes the whole purpose out of the whole progress part of leveling.

With your mindset, might as well let us choose which abilities to unlock when we level too, right?


No...?

My suggestion is one runeskill every 8 levels. Heck, make it 10 if you want. You will still have plenty to unlock - this helps in those situations where the one skill you really want to try is located inexplicably around level 59. If you don't want to use this, you can freely choose not to.

EDIT - also, skills are all unlocked by 30. Which is reasonable. Some rune effects aren't unlocked until the end of Hell. This isn't.
Edited by Starbird on 3/27/2012 5:16 PM PDT
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