Diablo® III

The real issue with Soul Harvest

50 Draenei Hunter
740
Whether the ability is balanced or not compared to other classes is something I'm sure will be addressed eventually (if it even needs to be at all). That's not what bugs me about Soul Harvest.

Instead, this ability is simply not enjoyable. The initial "Wow, I'm suddenly a lot more powerful" was great at first but it quickly degenerates into a feeling of "ugh I have to go refresh Soul Harvest again." Instead of feeling powerful with SH, it becomes a case where having SH is the norm and without it you feel weak. Refreshing SH becomes a chore but it's too good to ignore for long.

I don't see there being any real depth to this spell until very high levels when entering melee could be a risky death sentence. By that time, this spell may no longer even be useful anymore (as others have theorized elsewhere). Until probably Inferno, this spell will be a no-brainer but a completely uninteresting one.
Edited by Kayonia on 4/16/2012 6:42 PM PDT
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Thank you for opening up another thread on this Skill, 3 or 4 defiantly wasn't enough.

On your point about refreshing it, Would it be more fun as a Passive? I think not, then it would be nerfed and then its a boring passive. If you don't want to refresh it, blizzard made a rune specifically for the ..lazy person :D
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50 Draenei Hunter
740
Thank you for opening up another thread on this Skill, 3 or 4 defiantly wasn't enough.

On your point about refreshing it, Would it be more fun as a Passive? I think not, then it would be nerfed and then its a boring passive. If you don't want to refresh it, blizzard made a rune specifically for the ..lazy person :D


The other topics were focused mostly on balance. My issue is with the core concept behind the spell - it isn't fun.

I also never suggested making it passive. There are endless other ways to implement a self-buff like this. It's current incarnation is the problem, however. The rune also doesn't fix it. It lets you refresh it half as often but it doesn't make the core spell any more enjoyable.
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Well what are your suggestions?
Making the actual "harvesting" part more strong but reducing the buff?
Maby making it do weapon damage base line so theirs more incentive to use it
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50 Draenei Hunter
740
Well what are your suggestions?
Making the actual "harvesting" part more strong but reducing the buff?
Maby making it do weapon damage base line so theirs more incentive to use it


I would vote neither. I'm talking about completely revamping the mechanic of the spell, not tweaking the numbers in one way or another.

I don't have a specific suggestion to give because I'm just here to test and give feedback. Not to mention, from what I've seen in my years of perusing Blizzard forums, Blizzard has never taken a suggestion from the forums. They listen to our feedback but they come up with their own solutions to the problems.
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There is already some discussion of this in the (currently) most active SH thread at:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4365752535?page=4#75

I feel the same way about SH - applying it regularly makes it feel like maintenance and isn't fun. Perhaps this is because beta is so easy - applying it safely in Inferno might be a much bigger challenge rather than a chore. I think the same applies to Barbarian's Battle Rage - if you're playing it then you have to apply it every 30 seconds. Magic Weapon lasts for 5 minute, and Monk mantras 3 (but you have a reason to re-apply Monk mantras more often.) Magic Weapon by itself looks like a boring passive, but the options you have from runes are more varied and interesting than the SH ones.

I'm not sure how this problem can be fixed. If you are viewing SH as a buff then the way to make it less unenjoyable (though boring) is to extend the duration. The longer the duration, the less the point of having the buff vary depending on how many enemies are nearby. So basically you end up with it being a passive. I'm not sure if there's a way to keep it giving a +damage buff without some players feeling compelled to have it up all the time. The flavor of "harvesting" the strength of enemies to make yourself more powerful is cool but I'm not sure about the execution.

If you view SH as a kind of aoe, then perhaps the harvesting bit should be stronger and the buff less so (or removed entirely.) You could make it some kind of aoe pulse based on the life/level/whatever of enemies affected. This would be a way of getting the "harvesting the power of enemies to do damage" without it actually being a buff. Perhaps you could have it increase only the damage of the next attack right after SH. This would make the buff limited to every 15s or so and I don't think it would feel mandatory for maximizing damage. Or, as Vaaz suggests, making it deal weapon damage gives you an incentive to use it as an aoe.
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Good point OP, in a way it makes me think of the old seal and judge system with WoW Paladins. Refreshing seals and judging all the time got to be absolutely routine, tedious, and obnoxious, it wasn't fun at all but you HAD to do it. Soul Harvest being mandatory isn't something I'm convinced of or worried about, but if you DO take it, then you're probably gonna want to use it as much as possible and I feel that will lead to, like you said, feeling like it is just some chore that you have to carry out for the sake of efficacy and NOT fun. Whether or not it is OP I won't get into, but I think it really is a badly designed ability overall, the only aspect of it that keeps it from being an absolute joke in terms of design is the risk vs. reward of keeping it up on harder difficulty modes. To be honest, it and Jar of Spiders are the only WD abilities I'm unhappy with.
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The real issue with Soul Harvest is that people keep making new threads about it!
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50 Draenei Hunter
740
04/16/2012 07:24 PMPosted by D3BETA
The real issue with Soul Harvest is that people keep making new threads about it!


More reason to just scrap the ability and give us something fun. I'd hate for WDs to be balanced around the fact that we potentially have an extra couple hundred Intellect at all times.
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04/16/2012 07:30 PMPosted by Kayonia
The real issue with Soul Harvest is that people keep making new threads about it!


More reason to just scrap the ability and give us something fun. I'd hate for WDs to be balanced around the fact that we potentially have an extra couple hundred Intellect at all times.


Their not balanced around the skill, you could easily not take it and nothing much would change.
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Soul harvest scales worse and worse the higher you level. It's amazing in the beta; it's about a 20% increase end-game (based on projected +int on items and items seen in videos). It's not a *mandatory skill* in the end.

Also, as far as the "fun factor", that's personal preference. I enjoyed the warlock soul shard mechanic in WoW and some people hated maintaining soul shards. I enjoy the cost/benefit of soul harvest in diablo 3. It's not a broken skill or an unbalanced one.
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To be honest the way I see it this skill is only mandatory for people that for some reason want to play the WD solely as a massive damage machine, which is fine, it's their business. I'm personally not going to take it because I'm playing my my WD as a control class with supplemental AoE damage, If I wanted to go raw balls to the wall monster damage, I'd play a
Wiz or a Barb or something. So the whole debate about it being mandatory or not is predicated on your playstyle and intentions with the class; in my opinion the WD has far too many control options to sit here and worry about min maxing damage, and I also think that come Hell/Inferno difficulty, assuming (and hoping) we don't get screwed with tons of resistant and immune enemies, I think very strong control will be rarer and more valuable of a role than massive damage anyhow.
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Just see it as a damage nova with a CD. Does that make it better? The time you spend casting it is time you aren't DPS'ing. So the "oomph" you get from using other spells afterwards, you have to consider that you spent a while getting in melee range, to cast, and then only start doing damage.
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I very much preferred the way the spell looked and looked like it functioned in the original witch doctor videos.
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End game it will be risky to get that buff.

Early on it's overpowered.

It balances out in the end and you can altogether skip it if you don't like it.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9775
Do what ima do. Don't use it! I understand your point it's so good u have to use it... Atleast at low levels. But meh IMO use what you enjoy, in the end, that will get u farther in the game
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It doesn't look fun at all to me, so I'm not going to use it. It's not like I'm not going to be able to blow through this stuff anyways.
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Were Amplify Damage (Necro) or Heart of the Wolverine (Druid) fun to cast in D2?

I would say they were. They buffed my damage and gave a cool orange/red graphic.

The only thing Soul Harvest lacks from that analogy is the graphics. They will probably make it cooler-looking eventually, but first they need to deal with more important graphics needs like Monk weapons and maybe character death animations.
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Were Amplify Damage (Necro) or Heart of the Wolverine (Druid) fun to cast in D2?

I would say they were. They buffed my damage and gave a cool orange/red graphic.

The only thing Soul Harvest lacks from that analogy is the graphics.


To me at least, Soul Harvest feels more like a personal buff that you have to refresh regularly rather than an offensive spell you regularly cast on enemies. This makes it feel more like the seal/judge system mentioned above than D2 curses.
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