Diablo® III

Monster melee attack range

Posts: 973
I have noticed this issue since I started playing beta. You just get hit by monster's melee attack when you are obvious out of their range. I don't know whether it's a latency issue, or intentional design, or bug?

I made a detailed video to how obvious this issue is. It's quite clear and obvious. But, it seems like it depends on the type of monsters. I got hit by zombie and skeleton way out of range, but I can actually dodge most of the attacks from Grotesque.

Watch it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW3VZs3gx2A

Latency? Intentional design? Or bug?

---------------------------------------------------------
Here is another video made by someone to show a comparison of this issue between D3, D2, and Torchlight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsuJXNeLm-4

Many people have reported this issue long ago, any answers?

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3881920525

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3278902529

http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?812552-Diablo-3-Beta-HIT-LAG-it-s-TERRIBLE-(
Edited by Larse on 4/12/2012 3:44 PM PDT
Latency most likely.
Posts: 660
This probably needs to be on the tech problems forum or whatever it's called....
Posts: 1,612
Was it seriously need to break forum rules & do an all caps post just for this, I mean seriously.

EDIT: It's funny how changes it from all caps after he realizes that someone reported him for it lol.
Edited by Sofia on 4/11/2012 1:17 PM PDT
I suspect this would have been more noticeable in the beta if people had cared more about getting hit once.

In inferno, one "undeserved" hit could mean defeat. And let's no even get into hardcore.

However, I suspect the reason for no blue response is that it's better in the release version. Or that it's never going away and needed for some "balancing". But I hope the first one.
LOL remind me of Warcraft III...move archer into range of grunt, move well out of range by the time the axe falls...it whiffs...*SPLAT* gg archer
Posts: 480
The same things can be said when hitting monsters too. On my monk, I'll be dealing damage most of the time while punching air, it's slightly annoying.
Posts: 397
This issue has been known pretty much the entire beta, at least since patch 8 or so when I first got in. The reason we can dodge Grotesque attacks/explosions is that they have a really slow attack, compared to the relatively low delay zombie attacks(when they actually attack, and not stand around)

It is NOT a latency issue, as you still experience it even with pings under 50. It is most likely a design/architecture issue, relating to hit prediction on the client side, where D3 is designed to still be playable with high pings.

It's a tradeoff(a bad one, imo) for decent animation/playability at high pings, Blizzard apparently chose to sacrifice really well timed animations/hit detection at low pings. The server indicates you are hit, THEN sends the animation message to your client, so even if you've ALREADY run off, you still get hit, despite appearing to be 10 feet away.

Most online games suffer from this, because almost every game since Netquake suffers from some hit prediction/client vs server hit detection issues, in the name of a less choppy game at higher pings. If there was some way to guarantee that everybody had a ping of 20ms, the games would be designed differently.
Posts: 660
Ya... but honestly they should be able to use extrapolation and interpolation to get it pretty close.
Posts: 1,612
This issue has been known pretty much the entire beta, at least since patch 8 or so when I first got in. The reason we can dodge Grotesque attacks/explosions is that they have a really slow attack, compared to the relatively low delay zombie attacks(when they actually attack, and not stand around)

It is NOT a latency issue, as you still experience it even with pings under 50. It is most likely a design/architecture issue, relating to hit prediction on the client side, where D3 is designed to still be playable with high pings.

It's a tradeoff(a bad one, imo) for decent animation/playability at high pings, Blizzard apparently chose to sacrifice really well timed animations/hit detection at low pings. The server indicates you are hit, THEN sends the animation message to your client, so even if you've ALREADY run off, you still get hit, despite appearing to be 10 feet away.

Most online games suffer from this, because almost every game since Netquake suffers from some hit prediction/client vs server hit detection issues, in the name of a less choppy game at higher pings. If there was some way to guarantee that everybody had a ping of 20ms, the games would be designed differently.


Beta never shows how a full game is going to be 'cause you are only getting a small portion of a whole system, so you can't really judge a game system off of a beta.
My guess is that it takes the placement of the player when it starts to do it's slow attack movement, and even if the player went away, it still counts the first position (when it started the attack) at the moment it hits the player.
90 Worgen Mage
2235
Posts: 34
04/11/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Sofia
Beta never shows how a full game is going to be 'cause you are only getting a small portion of a whole system, so you can't really judge a game system off of a beta.


Disagree.

I believe this mechanic is something that can be judged. Since it is network related, and the beta is really about testing out the network-side of D3, I'm sure if there was a better system fully built for player/monster hits it would be tested in our Beta.
Posts: 1,612
04/11/2012 01:25 PMPosted by Mercules
Beta never shows how a full game is going to be 'cause you are only getting a small portion of a whole system, so you can't really judge a game system off of a beta.


Disagree.

I believe this mechanic is something that can be judged. Since it is network related, and the beta is really about testing out the network-side of D3, I'm sure if there was a better system fully built for player/monster hits it would be tested in our Beta.


I love how you say that you disagree w/ me then you go on & agree w/ me later in your statment it's rather funny.
Posts: 397


Beta never shows how a full game is going to be 'cause you are only getting a small portion of a whole system, so you can't really judge a game system off of a beta.


The D3 beta is limited in game content, but there is NO way they are going to have a different hit detection system in the retail version on may 15th. On top of that, EVERY online game uses the same principle, because the appearance(animation wise) of less lag is worth more positive publicity than true animation/hit detection and a game that appears far more laggy.

The millions of people with 250ms+ pings who can play D3 relatively well with the current system GREATLY outweigh the few hundred thousand(or less) people who have a 20ms ping to the D3 servers. There is literally no way Blizzard would move to a more responsive system. They would either have to move more decision making to the client instead of the server, which they already are against, or they would have to cut down client prediction a lot, and make the game appear to be a laggy mess over 100ms pings.
Community Manager
Posts: 3,387
It's intentional. We don't want a game where the most effective way to play is to dodge in and out of enemy attacks. It's not that difficult to do, and it's just not a very fun way to play. "Most effective" and "not fun" just can't be in the same sentence when describing part of the game. We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you'll use, and kiting can be too, but it'd be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.

Also think about just running past enemies to rush through an area and never being hit. Anyone looking to rush would love it! Which is why it's not a good idea from a design perspective. :) It's not something we'll be changing.
Posts: 262
We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you'll use, and kiting can be too, but it'd be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.


So, in later difficulties the goal really isn't to dodge incoming missiles, it's to set up your defenses so you can survive the damage? I had assumed dodging incoming attacks via lots of movement would be high priority.
Posts: 13,945
View profile
04/11/2012 01:42 PMPosted by TheMediator
We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you'll use, and kiting can be too, but it'd be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.


So, in later difficulties the goal really isn't to dodge incoming missiles, it's to set up your defenses so you can survive the damage? I had assumed dodging incoming attacks via lots of movement would be high priority.


Dodge missiles.
Kite melee.

Not dodge and kite melee.
Posts: 4,443
It's intentional. We don't want a game where the most effective way to play is to dodge in and out of enemy attacks. It's not that difficult to do, and it's just not a very fun way to play. "Most effective" and "not fun" just can't be in the same sentence when describing part of the game. We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you'll use, and kiting can be too, but it'd be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.

Also think about just running past enemies to rush through an area and never being hit. Anyone looking to rush would love it! Which is why it's not a good idea from a design perspective. :) It's not something we'll be changing.


Good response.
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]