Diablo® III

Monster melee attack range

Posts: 2,751
I have a feeling this might blow up after release. Someone is going to come into the forums and start flipping out that his HC character died because an attack hit him from across the screen and he's going to assume it was a bug. If a fix isn't intuitive it will cause problems especially when it isn't made clear to the player. The fact that this needed to be addressed in the first place demonstrates that it matters and if it comes up once it will come up again.
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Shouldn't by running by monsters with your face.

Or trying to bypass zombies.
Posts: 3,290
Potion + run away. OK? Now you don't die in Hardcore.

I think this mechanic is necessary even though it does look funny on screen. D2 was too generous in the players' ability to dodge low attack speed monsters. You could play ranged classes practically naked because of it. Defensive stats were not nearly as important as MF and kill speed.

I like this change because it requires all classes to gear for some defensive stats. It will make the item game more interesting because stacking heavy dps stats only will not be a viable strategy for ranged classes. Sometimes monsters will teleport on top of you and you will need enough survivability to last a round of blows as you run away.

Again, this is all a problem with player run speed and how imbalanced it is in combat. But, high run speed is a necessary evil for pacing between combat and to make travel feel fluid. It's not worth slowing down the whole game for the sake of more realistic combat and to make defensive stats important.
Edited by Jim on 4/12/2012 10:55 AM PDT
This decision makes sense. Blizzard wants you to get hit if you're reckless/stupid enough to fall into melee range, but not every monster has a super-fast swing animation to represent this. The animation is immaterial; if you got close, you got hit. Just because the animation doesn't match for the purpose of making it look smoother has no bearing on the fact that their logic is sound.
Edited by D3BETA on 4/12/2012 10:56 AM PDT
04/12/2012 10:45 AMPosted by D3BETA
Complaining about this, after it has been proven to be an intended mechanic, makes you look like a retard.


It hasn't been proven, just because we were told it is does not necessarily mean it's the truth.

You don't understand, I get it. The whole thing is lost on you.


No, it's like the people told you above. I do understand it, i just don't agree with it. I shouldn't get hit from half a screen away by a hit lag, regardless of whether or not Bashiok says it's "working as intended".
The fact that the players thought it's a bug or latency is more than enough to demonstrate that this is a lame and gimmicky mechanic.

In none of your posts in this thread you actually countered anyone at any point. Spam all you want, say that people "don't understand", it's still a shait mechanic.


No, I proved my points using logic and fact in many instances. I don't see anyone refuting my posts anymore, do you? The only reason I don't at all try to deal with you is because you are so off base to begin with you clearly don't understand the discussion at all. For one, it's. Not. Lag. Before it was explained it was perfectly O.K. to think it was a latency issue. I thought that as well. However, after being explained WHY it is like that, and that it is working as INTENDED, no one here besides you is trying to argue the point that it is a latency issue.

You're wrong. Dead wrong. Proven many, many times now.
04/12/2012 10:51 AMPosted by Steveman
I have a feeling this might blow up after release. Someone is going to come into the forums and start flipping out that his HC character died because an attack hit him from across the screen and he's going to assume it was a bug. If a fix isn't intuitive it will cause problems especially when it isn't made clear to the player. The fact that this needed to be addressed in the first place demonstrates that it matters and if it comes up once it will come up again.


Blizzard has already given the community its stance on hardcore characters. Here it is just to refresh everyone.

Note: Blizzard Entertainment is in no way responsible for your Hardcore character. If you choose to create and play a Hardcore character, you do so at your own risk. Blizzard is not responsible for the death and loss of your hardcore characters for any reason including Internet lag, bugs, Acts of God, your little sister, or any other reason whatsoever. Consult the End User License Agreement for more details. Blizzard will not, and does not have the capability to restore any deceased Hardcore characters. Don't even ask. La-la-la-la-la, we can't hear you...
No, I proved my points using logic and fact in many instances. I don't see anyone refuting my posts anymore, do you? The only reason I don't at all try to deal with you is because you are so off base to begin with you clearly don't understand the discussion at all. For one, it's. Not. Lag. Before it was explained it was perfectly O.K. to think it was a latency issue. I thought that as well. However, after being explained WHY it is like that, and that it is working as INTENDED, no one here besides you is trying to argue the point that it is a latency issue.

You're wrong. Dead wrong. Proven many, many times now.


The guy is using "hit lag" as a descriptor for the issue. He's not saying it's "lag" literally, that should be obvious from reading his posts. Also, there are MANY of us who are arguing against the system as it is, not just him. It was never OK before it was explained, it was reported more than once as a bug and assumed to be such.
Posts: 44
LOL this is garbage and gives Blizzard a bad name...

I can understand a few yards but 10 yards?

if its just for PvE fine whatever ill get over it

but if I see this is PvP? lol wow, my life is over I guess
Posts: 1,000
Since I will mainly be playing a Barbarian, I am happy I can be hit a lot.

Me being hit more = More revenge procs :D
No, I proved my points using logic and fact in many instances. I don't see anyone refuting my posts anymore, do you? The only reason I don't at all try to deal with you is because you are so off base to begin with you clearly don't understand the discussion at all. For one, it's. Not. Lag. Before it was explained it was perfectly O.K. to think it was a latency issue. I thought that as well. However, after being explained WHY it is like that, and that it is working as INTENDED, no one here besides you is trying to argue the point that it is a latency issue.

You're wrong. Dead wrong. Proven many, many times now.


The guy is using "hit lag" as a descriptor for the issue. He's not saying it's "lag" literally, that should be obvious from reading his posts. Also, there are MANY of us who are arguing against the system as it is, not just him. It was never OK before it was explained, it was reported more than once as a bug and assumed to be such.


You can argue all you want. It solves more problems than it creates. The biggest arguments so far is visual break and to get to a point to fix this would cause an even worse visual issue not to mention the balance ramifications. (infinite kiting, ranged supremacy, stale gameplay, melee characters suffering, and so much more.)

It was reported as a bug, sure, but now we know it is not a bug. Time to stop complaining maybe? Especially when Bashiok already stated it would not be changed.

Not only that but it is not game breaking at all and is a system used in many mainstream games. Why? Because it works. It's effective. It is not a big deal. It doesn't give mobs long range, you were in range and you took damage. How that's communicated to you is the way it is because it would be a mess to have mobs animation occur instantaneously.

You would have worse issues than crying about the fact that a zombie's attack hit you as you retreat away. Guess what? That's why. The game would be too easy and lame if you could escape hits so easily by juking out of attack animations.
Edited by D3BETA on 4/12/2012 11:23 AM PDT
You can argue all you want. It solves more problems than it creates. The biggest arguments so far is visual break and to get to a point to fix this would cause an even worse visual issue not to mention the balance ramifications. (infinite kiting, ranged supremacy, stale gameplay.)

It was reported as a bug, sure, but now we know it is not a bug. Time to stop complaining maybe? Especially when Bashiok already stated it would not be changed.


Interesting that you don't address any of the solutions offered in this thread, you just restate the same subjective points they countered (with a weird superior tone BTW). But whatever, I don't normally respond to your sort of argumentativeness - however, Bashiok isn't a dev, he's a community rep. He's just repeating what he has been told. If the system is shown to be bad and argued against calmly and persistently, there's every chance it will be changed. Devs change things they made absolute statements about constantly, and sometimes this is directly due to reasoned argument on game forums.
You can argue all you want. It solves more problems than it creates. The biggest arguments so far is visual break and to get to a point to fix this would cause an even worse visual issue not to mention the balance ramifications. (infinite kiting, ranged supremacy, stale gameplay.)

It was reported as a bug, sure, but now we know it is not a bug. Time to stop complaining maybe? Especially when Bashiok already stated it would not be changed.


Interesting that you don't address any of the solutions offered in this thread, you just restate the same subjective points they countered (with a weird superior tone BTW). But whatever, I don't normally respond to your sort of argumentativeness - however, Bashiok isn't a dev, he's a community rep. He's just repeating what he has been told. If the system is shown to be bad and argued against calmly and persistently, there's every chance it will be changed. Devs change things they made absolute statements about constantly, and sometimes this is directly due to reasoned argument on game forums.


I have refuted a few people's suggestions and offered why it is wrong and how it would affect game play negatively. If you don't wish to see that it is not my problem. Sure, you are right, if it's truly a bad thing it could be changed. But take my word for it. It's not. It's far less serious then it is made out to be.
90 Draenei Shaman
11020
Posts: 1,312
Blizzard will not trivialize movement around/through monsters in their game.

"Hit lag" as a descriptor for this is poor choice of words. "Damage lag" would be more apt - the damage component of a hit doesn't occur until a set time after the hit has been initiated - and a hit that is initiated WILL hit, regardless of distance moved.

IF monster hits were avoidable through movement*, then you'd have a situation where monster damage would be trivialized.

*(and they are - just don't GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO THEM to INITIATE the hit in the first place - melee monsters do NOT "attack" beyond melee range. The damage hits beyond melee range because the damage component is midway through the hit animation)

The only way I could see Blizzard making this better for the whiners in threads like this is perhaps speeding up monster attack animations a tiny bit, and front-loading the damage portion. PERSONALLY, I think it should stay the way it is. You know what melee hit initiation range is, stay the hell out of it unless you're tanky.

Edit: And I've played the beta for the last four+ months, so don't start telling me I don't have experience with what is being deemed a "problem" here. I just don't think manually juking and dodging melee attacks has any place in a game like D3. I want big numbers and lots of loot. I don't want to have to focus on manual damage mitigation until I'm in NM/Hell/Inferno, and even then, if they can keep me focused on avoiding damage by staying at range as often as possible, then I'm happy.
Edited by Vaelistine on 4/12/2012 11:46 AM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
11020
Posts: 1,312
I have a feeling this might blow up after release. Someone is going to come into the forums and start flipping out that his HC character died because an attack hit him from across the screen and he's going to assume it was a bug. If a fix isn't intuitive it will cause problems especially when it isn't made clear to the player. The fact that this needed to be addressed in the first place demonstrates that it matters and if it comes up once it will come up again.


This.


Nope. Anyone playing HC is going to learn how to play in Normal. People who play HC are naturally INSANELY risk averse with their characters (aside from the initial lack of risk aversion in making a character HC, I suppose).

They'll learn exactly what to do and not do well before they have anything special to lose.

04/12/2012 11:44 AMPosted by Larse
It really does not matter that this damage lag thing is good or bad. It's just people will come out constantly to whining about this issue.


People whine all the time, about anything they can get their hands on. And even things they CAN'T get their hands on (*points at all of the people who !@#$%ed that Inferno wasn't hard enough, before they ever played the game past A1 Norm*). When the game comes out, a majority of us will be too busy playing to come here and critique it constantly.

Also, newsflash; HC characters die. That's EXACTLY the point of HC in the long term. People who lose chars in HC are going to whine. They'll whine about lightning/arcane traits on mobs being OP, they'll whine about traps, they'll whine about the difficulty on Inferno being *too damn high!*

One more game mechanic for people to whine about until they figure out that it's not going to keep the game from being a drug that'll still be fully capable of all the things D2 was.
Edited by Vaelistine on 4/12/2012 11:51 AM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
11020
Posts: 1,312
04/12/2012 11:52 AMPosted by Rush
Some of the attack animations are grossly slow, but the concept most definitely should not be changed. The d2-d3 comparison shows that d2 was extremely similar


This.
Posts: 445
04/12/2012 10:36 AMPosted by D3BETA
Only in the previous games monsters didn't hit you from half a screen away, the hit lag was a lot less. The current implementation of this mechanic is absolutely horrible.


The scale, the graphics, and the animations were a lot different in previous games. I've played beta for a couple dozen hours, all classes, and I never even considered this might be an "issue" until I came to this thread today. So no, it's not horrible. Get over it.
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