Diablo® III

Monster melee attack range

94 Tauren Druid
6565
Posts: 1,714
I just got on D2 to see if it's the same. It was NOT similar at all. I was running in and out on act 1 zombies... causing them to go do their attack animation... and having it miss because I was out of range. This at level 1 run speeds.

What's interesting about the act1 imps... they will ready their attack animation when you come into range, then un-ready if you run away too soon.

Why are they changing something that was never broke to begin with? Oo
kinda sucks dying on HC with that kind of hit. i remember on D2 there's a hit animation for your char so you inevitably stop and unable to move while getting a hit. that should trigger if you are indeed within range.
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I just got on D2 to see if it's the same. It was NOT similar at all. I was running in and out on act 1 zombies... causing them to go do their attack animation... and having it miss because I was out of range. This at level 1 run speeds.

What's interesting about the act1 imps... they will ready their attack animation when you come into range, then un-ready if you run away too soon.

Why are they changing something that was never broke to begin with? Oo


They aren't trying to "fix something that aint broke", they are changing it intentionally.
Posts: 248
THE MECHANIC:Once a hit trigger has been initiated, it will go through, regardless of range
THE PROBLEM:Players are receiving hits across the screen at high speeds
THE PERCEIVED EFFECT:Melee Monsters are able to hit players across the screen
THE SOLUTION:increase monster attack animation by about 10%Watch the video again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsuJXNeLm-4


Just so nobody misses this important post
Posts: 2,986
It's intentional. We don't want a game where the most effective way to play is to dodge in and out of enemy attacks. It's not that difficult to do, and it's just not a very fun way to play. "Most effective" and "not fun" just can't be in the same sentence when describing part of the game. We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you'll use, and kiting can be too, but it'd be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.

Also think about just running past enemies to rush through an area and never being hit. Anyone looking to rush would love it! Which is why it's not a good idea from a design perspective. :) It's not something we'll be changing.


Well said! Totaly agree. Its an action rpg so the rpg element also plays a big role in taking damage. It was similar to this in diablo 2 which led to many deaths for under developed hell players :P.
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04/12/2012 08:28 PMPosted by ßloodmane
... come on how are they going to make this okay with HC players... being hit by slow zombies halfway across the screen on a caster in inferno? how many chars will have to die before something is done... i'm not worried about norm or nm but in hell and inferno we all no that one hit wonders are all it takes to see that your deeds of valor will be remembered

First of all, player characters can be hit "halfway across the screen" if and only if they had moved to within melee range in the first place. Secondly, if a player makes it all the way through normal without learning that bouncing in and out of melee range is an ineffective tactic then, frankly, he deserves to get himself one-shot killed in the higher difficulties.
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04/13/2012 05:14 AMPosted by D3BETA
... come on how are they going to make this okay with HC players... being hit by slow zombies halfway across the screen on a caster in inferno? how many chars will have to die before something is done... i'm not worried about norm or nm but in hell and inferno we all no that one hit wonders are all it takes to see that your deeds of valor will be remembered

First of all, player characters can be hit "halfway across the screen" if and only if they had moved to within melee range in the first place. Secondly, if a player makes it all the way through normal without learning that bouncing in and out of melee range is an ineffective tactic then, frankly, he deserves to get himself one-shot killed in the higher difficulties.
Moving in and out isn't even necessarily an ineffective tactic - so long as you interrupt the attack animation with an ability rather than playing poorly and using nothing. Also: the melee attacks do not always land from a swing timer. This was easily apparent to me when I was playing a level 1 monk on the Skeleton King quest - plenty of mobs were faster than me and if I was constantly running in a straight line they would stop to attack and deal no damage. Considering they two-shot me, it was quite obvious no damage was dealt; there was also no dodging or blocking.

So if the attacks happen when you're already retreating and animations begin at maximum attack range (rather than very close as seen in the videos), you seem to be quite safe.
04/13/2012 05:40 AMPosted by Murdoch
So if the attacks happen when you're already retreating and animations begin at maximum attack range (rather than very close as seen in the videos), you seem to be quite safe.


This isn't correct, as already confirmed by Bashiok. If you get within melee range of a mob at any time and then retreat, it can attack and hit you despite the fact you are now well outside of range (i.e. half a screen away). Check out the videos.

Bear in mind AI doesn't ever initiate an attack unless you are within range. If you're outside of melee range, no attack is going to be initiated, obviously.
Edited by D3BETA on 4/13/2012 5:52 AM PDT
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Moving in and out isn't even necessarily an ineffective tactic - so long as you interrupt the attack animation with an ability rather than playing poorly and using nothing.

Exactly. People who learn how to employ character skills effectively are going to be a lot more successful than those who think they can cheese the AI by taking advantage of slow attack animations.
THE MECHANIC:Once a hit trigger has been initiated, it will go through, regardless of range
THE PROBLEM:Players are receiving hits across the screen at high speeds
THE PERCEIVED EFFECT:Melee Monsters are able to hit players across the screen
THE SOLUTION:increase monster attack animation by about 10%Watch the video again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsuJXNeLm-4


Just so nobody misses this important post


It's actually not important, because it's wrong. You will NEVER be hit halfway across the screen, unless you were in melee range FIRST. If you were in melee range, you got hit. Period. It doesn't matter if it happens half a screen away, or 10 screens away. You were in melee range first, which caused you to get hit.

Next time, don't fall into melee range and you won't get (a delayed animation showing as if you were) hit from across the screen.
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This is what happens when you play the first 45 minutes of the game for 6 months. You start noticing stuff like this that is unique to Act 1 and think it's buggy.

They know the monsters can hit you from across the screen if you get within melee range AND they start to swing. The graphics are really obvious. It's designed to teach the player that you cannot juke every monster -- instead you need to plan for it in your build. The zombies are a good teacher of this concept because they are so slow and so obvious. You should only be fighting these guys for maybe 20 minutes or so before moving on to the rest of the game.

Once you move past the idea of "OMG BUG" you can begin to play the game the way it was intended. You can learn this rule and get on with your Diablo 3 existence.
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So if the attacks happen when you're already retreating and animations begin at maximum attack range (rather than very close as seen in the videos), you seem to be quite safe.


This isn't correct, as already confirmed by Bashiok. If you get within melee range of a mob at any time and then retreat, it can attack and hit you despite the fact you are now well outside of range (i.e. half a screen away). Check out the videos.

Bear in mind AI doesn't ever initiate an attack unless you are within range. If you're outside of melee range, no attack is going to be initiated, obviously.


This is not always the case. Here's some screenshots to demonstrate this:
http://i.imgur.com/8W2cS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LKvNh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8qs1d.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UtKrk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SqSOn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wnBFS.jpg

Note: If you stand still and let a mob wail on you, his swings will always do damage or you will dodge/block. There is no basic 'miss'. Unless I've been getting incredibly bizarre game behaviour where hundreds of swings from skeletons land in a row with no 'misses', then suddenly ten or more 'miss' in a row only at the convenient time where I'm attempting to range them - which I highly doubt is the case. They're 'missing' because I ran away.

If you look at the screenshots, my health is not always the same. You'll note in the first screenshot, I do not take any damage while remaining at full health, so this does demonstrate validity that you can still range the attacks. The second and third screenshots display me taking direct damage from a hit at various distances. The fourth-through-sixth screenshots show me ranging each hit again, with different health values - however, from the start of the attack animation to the end, my health did not drop. I did not take swing damage.

because I was faster than this particular mob, I had to move the moment he became in range. If you are too slow or 'strafing' by the mob, he will hit you. If you move directly away the instant the mob enters his maximum attack range distance, it can 'miss'. So as I said earlier: there are cases where these attacks can still 'miss' (e.g. you're already retreating from a slightly faster mob).One final thing to note: attacks do not 'miss' when you are stationary. There is always a damaging hit, dodge or block. When on my level 1 monk I was being chased by mobs faster than I was that did 50-60% of my health per swing. They swung at me ~20 times and I never took damage. Since attacks always land and I did not dodge them, it means they 'missed' due to my range or 'running away'. Otherwise I'd have died.
Edited by Murdoch on 4/13/2012 9:31 AM PDT
If you are in range, you get hit despite what the animation looks like. Seems fine to me.

Try putting yourself in the shoes of the melee attacker ->

You run up to a ranged target, taking damage from their ranged attack.

You go in to begin a melee swing and the range target side steps a little bit and begins shooting you again.

You miss.
Edited by D3BETA on 4/13/2012 11:11 AM PDT
Strip out the exaggeration and poor video game to real life example comparison and your logic ... dare I call it logic at all, is silly.

In a video game, if you're in range you get hit, it's as simple as that. If you don't want to get hit, don't be in range or crowd control/use defensive abilities on the way in.
Edited by D3BETA on 4/13/2012 11:11 AM PDT
I don't get why people act like running in and out frantically dodging monster attacks isn't fun. Its actually a huge part of the fun in a game like Diablo to me, this isn't a realistic medieval combat simulator like Mount & Blade, its an arcadey hack and slash AND THAT"S WHAT MAKES IT FUN.

Having it play like some pen & paper game where getting in range = hit no matter what twitch skills you have is losing the essence of Diablo.

Running around dodging massive swarms of monsters in the desert in D2 was not easy to do perfectly and it was fun.

Odd that people can't see how something like this would be upsetting, I WANT TO DODGE AROUND LIKE A NINJA its part of what made D1 and D2 so fun.
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In fact they did. Several patches later they sped up the knife animation so it was more instant and didn't result in those frustrating moments where it caused the spy to miss. Fans rejoiced, and players maintained their respect for VALVe for doing what was right.


And several patches later with D3 this may be addressed. However, you still can range monster attacks under some circumstances:
http://i.imgur.com/8W2cS.jpg

The picture clearly dictates no damage being taken (if you're within range, every swing rolls either a hit, dodge or block - there is no 'miss'). There's so many people in this thread that have not played the beta and base their complaints off a single picture/video which forces you to place yourself in a terrible position. It also does not highlight the aspect that things are indeed 'dodge-able'.

I'm tempted to take a video showcasing how blown out of proportion this is.
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